Pages using Catalog pictures.

While looking through new additions I came across a bunch coin pages using monochrome pictures, which always ring alarm bells of catalog scans.

One example

N#359041 

There might be older pages also with scans. They use the Kluge reference and the ©Kluge copyright handle but I am pretty sure that the catalog (LINK) is copyrighted itself being published and from 1991.

Is there an agreement with Bernd Kluge, Thorbecke or the Patmos Publishing group?

LINK isn't a real link.  https://while looking through new additions

Sorry, corrected it.

Hi! I'm guilty here.

I didnt scan the book (that I have though) but reuse those from here: http://sredniowiecze.wcn.pl/coins?book=89&page=15

From my perspective, using those non creative representations of (often rare) coins is legally fine; I had the opportunity to defend this point of view in other threads. Also these coins are all from museums (cf sources listed in Kluge), just harder for me to find in the museums websites so I confess lazyness here.

I therefore think it would be ok to let them, but will let Xavier ofc have the final say here :-)

I'm trying to find contacts infos of the author, but the publishing house didn't publish anything after 2005 apparently, and the author retired from his position of Director of Berlin Münzkabinett in 2014…
I'll continue my researches.
In the meantime, I wrote to the new director Bernhard Weisser, just in case he may transfer my message :-)

They are from the Römisch-Germanische Zentralmuseum of the Leibniz-Forschungsinstitut für Archäologie in Mainz. You can ask if they let you go into their archive and photograph the items yourself but I doubt they let a non member of the faculty or at least a scientist in there.

Idolenz

They are from the Römisch-Germanische Zentralmuseum of the Leibniz-Forschungsinstitut für Archäologie in Mainz. You can ask if they let you go into their archive and photograph the items yourself but I doubt they let a non member of the faculty or at least a scientist in there.

Indeed, but then I must ask: is your challenge more about using Black & White photos or about using them without explicit authorization from the author?

Compendium

Indeed, but then I must ask: is your challenge more about using Black & White photos or about using them without explicit authorization from the author?

Using images without authorization is against Numista guidelines, and could also get Numista in legal trouble.

bjherbison

 

Using images without authorization is against Numista guidelines, 

True indeed; I try to reach Dr. Kluge but not easy…

 

and could also get Numista in legal trouble.

I personnally disagree here, cf : https://fr.numista.com/forum/topic128109.html#p1036728

It's not a challenge, the monochrome was just an easy clue that these are not real/direct photos. Also I think it might be difficult to get permission of the catalog material so I think going to the source might be easier but probably is not. 😅

Here full copy of my discussion today with IKMK exec.

My understanding is therefore that Kluge images fall behind the Munzkabinett authorization we already use.

Betreff: Message for Dr Bernd Kluge: Reuse Numismatics images for Numista

Hello

Can you please forward this message to your honorary member Dr. Bernd Kluge? I don't have his contact informations...

______________________

Dear Dr. Kluge

I hope this message finds you well.

I'm XXX, one of the administrators of the website numista.com. This is a wordlwide community website aiming at referencing coinage from all times and places.
We already have agreements from many museums, sales auction websites, etc. to reuse coins images (mentionning the source of course) on our entries.

Example: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces339294.html

I humbly write to you today to ask if you would authorize the reuse of some images taken from your books. I found them here : http://sredniowiecze.wcn.pl/coins?book=89&page=15

Let me know if you have any question.

Best,

______________________________________________________________________
Objet : AW: Message for Dr Bernd Kluge: Reuse Numismatics images for Numista

Dear colleague,

no need to contact him.

His images are from our collection.

Best wishes,

K Dahmen

---------------------------

Dr. Karsten Dahmen

Stellvertretender Direktor
Münzkabinett, Staatliche Museen zu Berlin,
Stiftung Preussischer Kulturbesitz
Am Kupfergraben 1 / Monbijoubrücke
Postanschrift: Geschwister-Scholl-Str. 6
D-10117 Berlin
Tel: 0049-[0]30-266-42-5404
Fax: 0049-[0]30-266-42-5402

ikmk.smb.museum/ndp

Unsere Hinweise zum Datenschutz finden Sie hier: https://www.smb.museum/datenschutz/

______________________________________________________________________

Betreff: RE: Message for Dr Bernd Kluge: Reuse Numismatics images for Numista

Dear Dr. Karsten

Thank you so much for your quick answer.

I'm referring to the images of "Deutsche Münzgeschichte von der späten Karolingerzeit bis zum Ende der Salier". I didn't know that those were all from your collection. Would you agree to give Numista the right to reuse the photos from your collections using the copyright mention of your preference?

I'm available for any question you may have.

Best,

______________________________________________________________________

De : Dahmen, Dr. Karsten 
Envoyé : jeudi 16 mars 2023 16:05
Objet : AW: Message for Dr Bernd Kluge: Reuse Numismatics images for Numista

Pelase see our changed copyright statements in ikmk.smb.museum

Both in individual entries and in bottom of page.

Summary in Imprint:

Copyright

The Münzkabinett, Staatliche Museen zu Berlin - Stiftung Preussischer Kulturbesitz, holds the Copyright of this website (ikmk.smb.museum). The Copyright includes both related texts and images of the IKMK's home page and the descriptions of objects within the database section. These parts are licensed Creative Commons - ShareAlike Attribution 4.0 International.

Depending on their legal status, photographs of objects in the database are licensed individually. In general any photographs of objects whose creator (i.e. of the object in question) has been dead for at least 70 years are Public Domain Mark 1.0. In the case of modern and contemporary circulation currencies (coins and paper notes) it is equally assumed that no additional copyright does exist.

In any other cases individual statements regarding the rights of third parties will be given.

Recommended quotation of this website: The Berlin Münzkabinett Online Catalogue https://ikmk.smb.museum/

Recommended quotation for a single object within the online catalogue: Münzkabinett der Staatlichen Museen zu Berlin, [8-digit object number]

To create a hyperlink in the Internet to a single object: Please add the 8-digit object number to this adress line https://ikmk.smb.museum/object?id=[object number]. For example https://ikmk.smb.museum/object?id=18205501.

Photo credit: Photographs by [please insert name of photographer, to be taken from each object entry's print view]. 

This work is licensed under a Creative Commons - ShareAlike Attribution 4.0 International license.

In cases of doubt we refer to Impressum der Staatlichen Museen zu Berlin and general regulations of copyright as expressed there.

---------------------------

Dr. Karsten Dahmen

Stellvertretender Direktor
Münzkabinett, Staatliche Museen zu Berlin,
Stiftung Preussischer Kulturbesitz
Am Kupfergraben 1 / Monbijoubrücke
Postanschrift: Geschwister-Scholl-Str. 6
D-10117 Berlin
Tel: 0049-[0]30-266-42-5404
Fax: 0049-[0]30-266-42-5402

ikmk.smb.museum/ndp

Unsere Hinweise zum Datenschutz finden Sie hier: https://www.smb.museum/datenschutz/

I am really confused.  

The images appear to have come from a publication of WCN, Warszawskie Centrum Numizmatyczne.  http://sredniowiecze.wcn.pl/coins?book=89&page=15

We have authorization to use images of WCN, and have used many images from their auction catalogs to make listings in the Poalnd and PLC parts of the catlaog.

Is WCN also using the images under Creative Commons?  

tdziemia

I am really confused.  

 

The images appear to have come from a publication of WCN, Warszawskie Centrum Numizmatyczne.  http://sredniowiecze.wcn.pl/coins?book=89&page=15

 

We have authorization to use images of WCN, and have used many images from their auction catalogs to make listings in the Poalnd and PLC parts of the catlaog.

 

Is WCN also using the images under Creative Commons?  

 

 

WCN just scanned Kluge on this one, but it seems totally OK if we believe Berlin Munzstatte answer