I need help identifying this Polish 6 Groschen Coin [Risolto]

I have a Polish-Lithuanian 6 Groschen Coin, King John II Casimir Vasa, and I want more details about it.

Here is the lettering on the coin:
Obverse - IOAN CAS DG REX POL & SMPLR

Reverse - GROS ARG SEX () REG POL 1665                                                                                                                                           

This except for the year.  N#168268

N#168265 or N#168272 - both fit. Both mints have same AT mark in 1665 according to Numista. If possible add first image same way as you added second one as it got mark below portrait. You added first image in a way that it can't be enlarged.

It is not Lithuanian 6 groschen as reverse lettering would be different.

Your other option would be to get Kopicki book and check which number fits.

@tokul, they don't seem right with the lettering.

DariusMaxim11

@tokul, they don't seem right with the lettering.

Main page gives you lettering on main image. Period lettering consistency was not consistent. :) Numista would need to double their database storage capacity to keep all lettering variations from 1500-1700.

I would be checking mint marks, year and assume that lettering can be different in some variant. I got only Lithuanian variant source myself. There are 18 Lithuanian lettering variants in 1665.

Here

It's the POL & S M D L R that doesn't match. It's on the coin I posted but obviously the year is different.

@rsirian1 Your's seems the best, but the year isn't good. Can you help somehow to see if I made a mistake at the year identification?

rsirian1

This except for the year.  N#168268

Your's seems to be the most similar with my coin, but the year is not good. Can you help somehow to find out if I made the year identification wrong or something? Also, I can't find A T on the coin you showed.

And one last question, on the Coin Holder should I write Polish-Lithuania 1665 6 Groschen Jan II Kazimir Waza and what mint do you think it is?

I'll wait for my response about what mint it is, but till then thank you for both your help!

Sorry, I know very little about these coins.  If there is a S M D L R (Sweden, Grand DUke of Lithuania and Ruthenia) variant on one of the coins tokul posted that would be best but I don't have any references for them.

DariusMaxim11

Also, I can't find A T on the coin you showed.

I confused X in REX with mint mark on obverse.

tokul

DariusMaxim11

Also, I can't find A T on the coin you showed.

 

I agree 100%. It's not the coin I posted but it's the only one I could find with that lettering.

@tokul got the right coin. N#168265

Kopicki 1678 for the 1665 variant. Can't find a picture of that but here's Kopicki 1680 one of the 1666 variants:

Same POL & S M D L R lettering.

DariusMaxim11

And one last question, on the Coin Holder should I write Polish-Lithuania 1665 6 Groschen Jan II Kazimir Waza and what mint do you think it is?

If you want English language on holder, ruler is John II Casimir Vasa. Numista's directory for Commonwealth is Polonized. Standard catalogue of world coins reference is KM 91, but they do not cover variations. Andrzej Tymp (AT) fits Krakow in 1665 according to KM.

Thank you both very much!!! 

Sorry for bothering you too much, but one last question: What grade do you think the coin is? VF-XF or what?

I don't grade other people's coins but if you want opinions I suggest taking better high resolution pictures outside the flip.

Ok, thank you very much!!!

Sorry I am late to the discussion.

Bydgoszcz mint.

SMDLR is a known variant for the obverse legend:

.

© Gabinet Numizmatczny Damian Marciniak 2025

However … it appears this is one of the most difficult varieties to attribute (or there is some new scholarship) because I can find some older attributions of the coin to Krakow.

But Kopicki 1678 looks exactly like mine (Year 1665)

I added the photo for Bydgoszcz in my earlier post.

Here is an example attributed to the Krakow mint for 1665. Different bust, AR (instead of ARG) reverse, SVE instead of S obverse.  

© Gabinet Numizmatczny Damian Marciniak 2024

Same auction house citing the same reference, which is a specialty book only on the szostaks of this ruler.

The szostaks of Jan Kazimierz/Jan Casimir are hard to attribute because they were struck in very large numbers, meaning there are multiple die varieties for each year at each mint, often with small spelling variants which might or might not be important to the attribution.  Even the well-known Polish auction houses do not always seem to be in agreement.   

Different year, but same lettering as mine.

Do you think that the coin is 1665 AT Kopicki 1677 Bydgoszcz Mint? Or what is your opinion, which is the right type?

I think you're right. I think it's Szóstak / 6 Groszy - Jan II Kazimierz Waza Bydgoszcz, 1665 AT Kopicki 1677.

👍

Additional examples attributed as 1665 Bydgoszcz:

By Marciniak:

By Warszawskie Centrum Numizmatyczny:

These all match your coin well.

Thanks for you post.  I learned there is a new reference book on these types.

First of all, thank you all for your help in solving my problem!