Sudan 20 dinars KM# 116.1 and 116.2. Mistake???

hello

 I found a strange thing..
KM  describe this type as  2 varietes:
1. 1996 , with  72  beads,
2. 1999, with  64 beads

I see here  a picture  of  116. and there is  year 1999, but  72 beads ( not 64)
 What does it means?  I  saw my coins ( I have  two of them ) both are 1999, and have 72 beads.  So,  we can conclude that there is a mistake in KM,  and  there is   one coin with only 72 beads, but with  lettring differences ( a to left, and  A    top)  ?

  I can show my  two coins .




Also, here, in catalogue, I see year 1997, which is also must be mistake and could be changed on 1996 or 1999...
 thanks,
and best regards !

Both are 1999  ( 1419 ) and both have 72 beads.

  Do someone have  coin with 64 borders? and which year is it? and   how place   letters on the left side?

thanks   for your  help.

best
David

Hi David,

my 1999-1419 is too worn (used), so I don't have all the beads visible on either side, so I can't count them.... Did you try to count the beads on both sides? On a Canadian coin I once found different numbers of beads on the two sides, could be the same here, maybe?

Here is how I count, an image inserted into powerpoint and then just "hard" work!

I simply cannot count denticles or beads just like that, so I need my powerpoint to assist me

Ole

Hi David,

The coin shown in the numista catalog is a 1999-1419, which is probably double struck (check on the dates!!).

A part from that, it has 72 (seventy two) beads on both sides (I just counted on the images), so David is certainly right about the 1999 coin, but maybe the 1996 coin has the 64 beads? Can anybody verify that? Maybe the bead amount has just been assigned to the wrong years

In the SCWC it's the same image used for both the 116.1 and 116.2, ie the 1999-1419 coin  So no way to count the beads there.

The variants of the "a" and "the "n" are also present on the 10 dinar coins from 2003 (120.1 and 120.2), shown here:
km120.1 (a above n):

km120.2 (a right of n):


Ole

thank you , Ole.
yes, both my coins are  with 72 bead from both sides.
So, now I dont know which KM#  I have  
 perhaps its    KM#116.1.2       

Hi David,

here is a link to a 1996, a 10 dinar!

http://www.collectitcoins.com/africa/sudan/0-22083.html

Ole

Hi again David,

I found this site searching for the 1996, 20 dinar coin:

http://www.wbcc.fsnet.co.uk/af-sud.htm

As far as I understand it, there is NO 1996 with the km116, only the 1999, which comes with the two different bead counts. The 64 beads must be rather scarce  As I understand it, the author only found the 64 bead variant after 2003 (the 20 dinar coin was not minted with that date). The 5, 10 and 50 dinar coins were minted in 2003, so maybe the 64 bead 20 dinar as well, but they forgot to change the date

Please tell me, how you understand the article.

Ole

Hi David,

so I was right, the coins minted with the year 2003-ah1424 have 64 beads

So the proper way of documenting the 20 dinar km116.x is

km116.1 from 1996-ah1416 does NOT exist

km116.1 with 72 beads was minted in 1999-ah1419  with this date<:D

km116.2 with 64 beads was minted in 2003-ah1424, but still with the 1999-ah1419 date

Here an image of 2003 coin with 64 beads:



So I think your question is solved, what do you think?

Ole

Cita: SjoelundHi David,

so I was right, the coins minted with the year 2003-ah1424 have 64 beads

So the proper way of documenting the 20 dinar km116.x is

km116.1 from 1996-ah1416 does NOT exist

km116.1 with 72 beads was minted in 1999-ah1419  with this date<:D

km116.2 with 64 beads was minted in 2003-ah1424, but still with the 1999-ah1419 date

Here an image of 2003 coin with 64 beads:



So I think your question is solved, what do you think?

Ole

Ole, good Job.   I know  that  site, its very nice, but  Paul Baker  mostly report  results of his own  observation, so we can destineethe  conclusion just like Sherlok Holmes, only logically.  2003 date with 64  beads  is also logical conclusion.  Paul  is not cataloguer.   Interesting, what Shon think about this type. Unfortunately I dont have  it near at this moment.   Could you be so kind to   look if you have it.
 But, finally, Im agree with you, because I never saw  1996 year of   20 dinars.  
If we will separate subtypes, it could be  shown as:
KM 116.1  1999 with 72 beads
KM 116.2 1999 with  64 beads

and, nothing more, No need to  count building millimeters or    which letter is right or  top.  right?

And, of course  here, in NUmista Catalogue is a  big mistake: year 1997 doesnot exist.
thank you very much, Ole.  

 

Hi,

in another group (http://www.worldofcoins.eu) I found somebody having the 64 variant, but it's a mule, since it's a 64/72 (64 on the building side and 72 on the value side). So it's a bit more complicated than our deductions from yesterday

Ole