I am growing increasingly frustrated with Ebay. I cannot afford 10% commission on a €400 coin. That’s a whooping €40, plus shipping, plus possibly insurance, plus PayPal 2.57% inside EU, 5.8% outside. The time is ripe for a cheap and specialised marketplace for precious metal coins only for the common man, not only collectors. Gold ownership will explode over the next 5 years. I am no trader but I want to restructure my collection from Sovereigns and Krugerrands into 2 Rands and am finding it prohibitively expensive to do so. Also there are gold coin series I started but lost interest in and now want to sell. Our tastes & preferences change over time. Why doesn’t Numista step into this opportunity? I shall join any team wanting to set this up as a cooperative = not a shareholder and management enriching corporation but paying good salaries and covering the costs.
With 0,5 % commision to Numista. Probably still better than 10 % ripp off...
There is another catch here in the EU - many countries are enforcing strict measures on post fees, when sending coins. If parcel is not sent as "letter with value" or "insured letter" or what ever else they may call it these days, it can be confiscated and you can wipe your nose over any damage refund. The world is just greedier a little bit more with every day that passes by...
Cita: "mikimaus"With 0,5 % commision to Numista. Probably still better than 10 % ripp off...
There is another catch here in the EU - many countries are enforcing strict measures on post fees, when sending coins. If parcel is not sent as "letter with value" or "insured letter" or what ever else they may call it these days, it can be confiscated and you can wipe your nose over any damage refund. The world is just greedier a little bit more with every day that passes by...
LP
Is this really so? In Germany I came across sellers, who argue it is illegal to send money by mail. However, most coins are not money but collector items and so they are just trying to rip you off charging for DHL and Hermes. As for value, if it is registered mail, I never found a need to declare what is in it. Outside EU I pay for insurance on all coins sold and to some EU countries as well!
Fully agree on .5%. I think it should in €. €1 for €1-50 coins, €2.5 for €50-100 and €5 for upwards. If you sell more than X then you pay a fee like €100 or more retroactively. There are ways to prevent deletes of accounts after one year...
I had to learn the hard way with German post after sending some silver.... they refused to send coins back. I still stand firmly after this statement: "German post stole my coins!". They can send them back anytime and I will change these words, if they want I can even send them my deepest gratitute in written. Until then Germans have a suitable word for such people (the hole at the dorsal side).
I don't mind if Numista would be upgraded like this, but such upgrade would need some serious safety measures. I am pretty sure there are scammers out there who would love to take advantage of Numista members. In order to sell any coin(s), one of simpler safety measure could be, that user has to have at least 100 confirmed swaps (with active different users).
Correct Mikimaus but I thought of creating a buy/sell function inside Numista for Numista members only. This would be a win win for Numista, as it would attract new collectors. As for 100 swaps, I don’t know but there are many ways and serious ways, some simple common sense and other more TEC driven to prevent fraudsters. 100 swaps seems very high to me. I find doing swaps very difficult and above all very time consuming. 100 swaps seems to reserve Numista for long time members only with a very specific profile, a bit of a gatekeeper. We should spread the net wide inside Numista. Anyways, nothing which cannot be sorted out in a business like manner by Numista management itself.
Xavier, tks for joining the conversation. Fully agreed on having a digital marketplace specialised on precious material coins, or historic coins. Maybe you find talent among Numista members, even engineering capabilities among the companies Numista members may have. My grain of salt would be to start small and simple and add complexity from there. I myself am a simpleton. I can only help with functionalities, strategy, ccordination and management. Anyways, thanks for at least acknowledging the need. It will increase over time. All the best.
I fear we slip ever more from the non-profit spirit of Numista and we might lose a significant part of our picture sources if are to follow this path .
Idolenz, agreed, that’s what I proposed, it should be a peer to peer marketplace, where costs are covered and investments budgeted for. That’s what any commissions would be for and that’s why I suggested to have the function available to members only.
Idolenz, agreed, that’s what I proposed, it should be a peer to peer marketplace, where costs are covered and investments budgeted for. That’s what any commissions would be for and that’s why I suggested to have the function available to members only.
Sales are allowed now if a seller satisfy some criteria.
Additionally it is quite easy to make auctions via forum, but the site rules shall be adopted to allow it + it shall be some minor efforts for moderation.
An example for the rules:
The auction thread shall contain as minimum:
- photos of the coin(s)
- minimal acceptable (start) price (it can be defined in the first post or during the trades when some of the offer are received)
- buy it now price (if any)
- postage fees and method (tracked or not, any limitations + responsibilities)
- deadline (exact time with 15 minutes anti-sniper, or something like "winner's bet shall stay 24 hours without raising)
- acceptable payment method
- additional information (e.g. where is the coins, if there is a possibility of combined shipping etc.)
My personal list of scammers from Numista: erniemix, yvain, CassTaylor
Cita: "NoIdea"I am growing increasingly frustrated with Ebay. I cannot afford 10% commission on a €400 coin. That’s a whooping €40, plus shipping, plus possibly insurance, plus PayPal 2.57% inside EU, 5.8% outside. The time is ripe for a cheap and specialised marketplace for precious metal coins only for the common man, not only collectors. Gold ownership will explode over the next 5 years. I am no trader but I want to restructure my collection from Sovereigns and Krugerrands into 2 Rands and am finding it prohibitively expensive to do so. Also there are gold coin series I started but lost interest in and now want to sell. Our tastes & preferences change over time. Why doesn’t Numista step into this opportunity? I shall join any team wanting to set this up as a cooperative = not a shareholder and management enriching corporation but paying good salaries and covering the costs.
Tks Bluhawk. I now sent an email to hood.de, an Ebay for Germans. I have some coins there for sale but no views whatsoever because it is totally unknown. Ebay is a monopoly for all practical purposes.
Allow me to recap:
1. Numista would not be an intermediary.
2. Platform would be peer to peer and not be for profit.
3. Platform would be for private persons with an individual’s tax number, not of a dealer or corporation.
4. Number of coins for sale could be limited to 10 gold and 20 silver coins.
5. Risk of transferring €400 is same as sending a coin worth €400 when swapping, if insured. Otherwise swapping carries even more risk.
6. Platform could be for EU residents to start with.
7. Accounts limited to 1 per IP address.
8. Platform should announce strongly and clearly that it does not help with conflict intermediation between buyer and seller and push responsability clearly down to participants. This empowers participants.
9. User interface should be clean and simple like Hood.de.
10. Platform would be for Numista members, at least to start with.
11. Sellers would have to have a collection ( with photos) of at least, say 20 coins. Photos would be checked with already available software if they were copied from the internet.
I've offered a lot of trades lately and gotten replies of "couldn't find anything on your list but would be happy to sell you the coins". Some of these guys have 14 coins in their collection and 435 coins to swap. I think they are on here just to sell coins. Makes it hard for us that are here for trades. You want to buy coins look on amazon or ebay.
If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything
Could it be worth putting in the profile section a tick box for if the member wants to swap, sell or both.
That way it could save time for people like Crruisercharlie, and maybe somehow integrate it into a search function in the start a new swap page?
I am like a crazy lunatic from another planet to care to post here. There are even people here who think a 10% Ebay commission is fair and are keen to pay it. Well I just got offered a very fair price for a 1887 London sovereign of €445 but because of the said 10% I had to refuse the sale. I mean, do we all not see the huge bid offer spread 10% when buying and another 10% when selling create? I mean, yes only the seller pays but the price ends up being affected for both buyer and seller and the coin price has to move by huge amounts so that a transaction is financially possible without a loss. I also had a very fair offer for a 1963 London sovereign of €385 which I had to refuse for the same reasons. The price gross would have to be 385+38,5=423 for it to work for me. I mean, €423? Seriously? We all suffer from this illiquid market and I am done collecting. Bye Bye
I agree the fees are high but coin prices are to high anyway. Ngc coins I was paying $15 for 2 years ago are $50 or more today. Good ol american greed at it's finest.
If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything
Cita: "Idolenz"I fear we slip ever more from the non-profit spirit of Numista and we might lose a significant part of our picture sources if are to follow this path .
I'm with you bud!
If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything
Cita: "Idolenz"I fear we slip ever more from the non-profit spirit of Numista and we might lose a significant part of our picture sources if are to follow this path .
I'm with you bud!
Numista losing its NFP status has got nothing to do with it. You think Numista has no revenues out of all the ebay and barneby’s and catawiki links? I am not arguing to make Numista a profit center by intermediating coins. Numista has no business in that. Anyways it won’t happen and this is not why we are all the poorer for it. We don’t need and we don’t want Numista as a broker. As for coins to have gone up in price, all collectibles have. It’s called asset price inflation and a general debasement of fiat currencies.
Great idea, I'd just do it with 0 % commission (possibly with fees for some better visibility or bigger storage of images or so).
It won't increase the costs too much, or will it?
On the other hand, I know a marketplace like this on another website (0 % provision is reality there) and it's almost dead (despite high numbers of users), I have sold like once in around 3 years that it exists (and I was one of the first sellers).
Other than the commission, I totally agree, the conditions on eBay are terrible and PayPal is even worse.
Cita: "marcel.jung"Great idea, I'd just do it with 0 % commission (possibly with fees for some better visibility or bigger storage of images or so).
It won't increase the costs too much, or will it?
On the other hand, I know a marketplace like this on another website (0 % provision is reality there) and it's almost dead (despite high numbers of users), I have sold like once in around 3 years that it exists (and I was one of the first sellers).
Other than the commission, I totally agree, the conditions on eBay are terrible and PayPal is even worse.
which one is this site you mention? You can say it here. It is not forbidden and as Numista is not for profit, it is not worried about competition. You can also send me a private message, Thanks!
Cita: "marcel.jung"Great idea, I'd just do it with 0 % commission (possibly with fees for some better visibility or bigger storage of images or so).
It won't increase the costs too much, or will it?
On the other hand, I know a marketplace like this on another website (0 % provision is reality there) and it's almost dead (despite high numbers of users), I have sold like once in around 3 years that it exists (and I was one of the first sellers).
Other than the commission, I totally agree, the conditions on eBay are terrible and PayPal is even worse.
which one is this site you mention? You can say it here. It is not forbidden and as Numista is not for profit, it is not worried about competition. You can also send me a private message, Thanks!
It's Colnect. But whatever the site, the point was that 0 % commission is the right (and a possible) amount, especially if it is not for profit, I don't know why anyone would suggest 0,5 % (but if they prefer to pay, I can send my bank account and they can send even 1 % of their annual turnout/net income ).
Hello, I'm not willing to pursue this idea of a numismatic marketplace. I don't feel confident and I have no appetite for overcoming the challenges I mentioned above.
Hello, I'm not willing to pursue this idea of a numismatic marketplace. I don't feel confident and I have no appetite for overcoming the challenges I mentioned above.
Salut Xavier, I understand of course but something is wrong with our market. I just sold a gold coin on Ebay, I have no interest in anymore for €145. I got €128 from which I paid €6 for shipping, so net €122 but the buyer forked out €145 because it was the last coin he needed to complete his collection. This does not seem right. For me, gold coins will increasingly become much more than a numismatic hobby. The public needs gold coins, even numismatic ones, as a honest way of saving. Our world is changing in a big way. This will never happen with such high transaction costs and bid offer spreads. I reached out to Millenium and never received an answer. I think it’s dead. I wish you would surround yourself with people you trust and let them go with it. Partnerships is a way to go, with gold.de for example. They could have a sister page for non-dealers and bank type KYC procedures and peer2peer technology. Anyways, I don’t want to trouble you to much and thank for your patience to read my “rant”. I myself am an ignorant, when it comes to technology and a very small fish but I see a market need. I am deeply frustrated. Sorry for this. All the best
Hello, I'm not willing to pursue this idea of a numismatic marketplace. I don't feel confident and I have no appetite for overcoming the challenges I mentioned above.
Salut Xavier, I understand of course but something is wrong with our market. I just sold a gold coin on Ebay, I have no interest in anymore for €145. I got €128 from which I paid €6 for shipping, so net €122 but the buyer forked out €145 because it was the last coin he needed to complete his collection. This does not seem right. For me, gold coins will increasingly become much more than a numismatic hobby. The public needs gold coins, even numismatic ones, as a honest way of saving. Our world is changing in a big way. This will never happen with such high transaction costs and bid offer spreads. I reached out to Millenium and never received an answer. I think it’s dead. I wish you would surround yourself with people you trust and let them go with it. Partnerships is a way to go, with gold.de for example. They could have a sister page for non-dealers and bank type KYC procedures and peer2peer technology. Anyways, I don’t want to trouble you to much and thank for your patience to read my “rant”. I myself am an ignorant, when it comes to technology and a very small fish but I see a market need. I am deeply frustrated. Sorry for this. All the best
Some members only want to change their doubles against euros…… which is a normal swap, no? I suppose those members collect both notes and coins, right? So there you have it, neat and according to rules. Of course, no bidding is involved.
Here I am again, I know Xavier is tired of this subject but at least try a joint venture with todocoleccion.net. They are established and experienced and allow for participants in a sale to trust each other or pay up for a buyers guarante, or not. The consequences are between two consenting adults. I just had an awful experience again with Ebay. The are just crooks. There is no other way to put it. They swindled me out of €100. I dream of an alternative to Ebay. Numista could be a catalyst. Thanks for allowing me to post this and apologies if I am getting on Xavier’s or anybody else’s nerves.
Here I am again, I know Xavier is tired of this subject but at least try a joint venture with todocoleccion.net. They are established and experienced and allow for participants in a sale to trust each other or pay up for a buyers guarante, or not. The consequences are between two consenting adults. I just had an awful experience again with Ebay. The are just crooks. There is no other way to put it. They swindled me out of €100. I dream of an alternative to Ebay. Numista could be a catalyst. Thanks for allowing me to post this and apologies if I am getting on Xavier’s or anybody else’s nerves.
Numista should not be a commercial site, there I do agree with Xavier! So please have your fun somewhere else. Please stop to give away your favorite sites as well as your negative comments of the sites not to your taste. It's all a matter of opinion.
Hello, I'm not willing to pursue this idea of a numismatic marketplace. I don't feel confident and I have no appetite for overcoming the challenges I mentioned above.
Xavier, I respect your decision and absolutely love this website. The work you and so many others have put into it have made it an incredible resource for collectors to enhance their collection and their knowledge not only of numismatics, but of the world as a whole.
Since you don't want to make it a market place, and as I said, I respect that decision, I have one suggestion for making it easier to facilitate swaps - allow members to see other members' wish lists. This would allow members to make quicker and easier trades because they will know what the other members want to swap for. I have initiated swaps too many times only to be told by the other member that I have nothing on my swap list that is on their wish list. If I could see that information before hand, I would not start a swap that is doomed to fail.
Here I am again, I know Xavier is tired of this subject but at least try a joint venture with todocoleccion.net. They are established and experienced and allow for participants in a sale to trust each other or pay up for a buyers guarante, or not. The consequences are between two consenting adults. I just had an awful experience again with Ebay. The are just crooks. There is no other way to put it. They swindled me out of €100. I dream of an alternative to Ebay. Numista could be a catalyst. Thanks for allowing me to post this and apologies if I am getting on Xavier’s or anybody else’s nerves.
todocoleccion.net - Looks like a good site. How do they make their money to stay afloat?
I’ve been a member here for seven years but only to keep track of the countries in my collection.
I recently realized there are coins offered for trade here that are unavailable anywhere else online. Now I am thinking about trading.
Would it be cheating if I offered 100x of Sacagawea dollars and 100x of US $20 bills as my only trade items?
It feels very daunting to come up with a system to inventory my duplicates and store them so that I can find them when I get asked to do a trade. Also, I suspect my duplicates are not going to be very interesting. How do people get started building trade inventory?
I’ve been a member here for seven years but only to keep track of the countries in my collection.
I recently realized there are coins offered for trade here that are unavailable anywhere else online. Now I am thinking about trading.
Would it be cheating if I offered 100x of Sacagawea dollars and 100x of US $20 bills as my only trade items?
It feels very daunting to come up with a system to inventory my duplicates and store them so that I can find them when I get asked to do a trade. Also, I suspect my duplicates are not going to be very interesting. How do people get started building trade inventory?
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