Firstly great, very informative site. You have done a lot of good work with what looks like fairly modest resources.
Secondly I have to confess that I have an ulterior motive. You see I sell world coins and banknotes online. I often use information on this site for reference for items I have not handled before. Something I've noticed is that coin prices are not accurate. At least in my small sample, they are always lower than what I believe they should be. If one of my customers would use the site themselves, they might be discouraged to buy from me because of what it says there.
This coin retails at AU$200+ in UNC. Obviously a question is on which market? But there aren't tham many of them around - ebay is one.
So, I thought that I might do my small part in improving this site by altering some coin prices. However before I do anything, I'd like to ask if there are any rules or etiquette guidelines associated with doing this. The conflict of interest is obvious, but at the same time, who other than a coin seller would best know what a coin is worth?
Hi - Nice to have you as an ex lurker and now a member. I am the referee for Australian coins and have done a lot of work to try to get the Australian section of Numista up to scratch. When I joined in 2015 it was a dogs breakfast, but now it is pretty good.
The coin prices/values on here are calculated by some kind of algorithm which looks at how many coins of the type there are listed on Numista and if the members that have it, have put a value on it, it does some kind of calculation. It is not very accurate especially when it comes to actual market value of especially Australian coins.
With regards to the 2012 & 2018 Red Poppy coin you highlighted I have got 3 of them in my collection.
The standard 2012 RSL issue is valued at $37 UNC by Numista - I have my personal one valued at $200.
The 2012 “C” mintmark Carded version does not even have a value on here but I have mine valued at $400.
The 2018 re-issue is valued at $6.48 by Numista which is a joke, my personal one is valued at $400.
I don't think there is much we can do about it until a lot more members who have this coin put their valuation on it. A lot of people don't bother to do that.
Cheers Mike
Master Referee - See my profile for what I collect.
I would think the best you can do is to ensure you have prices set in your collection. There is also a way to list official auction sales for coins, though eBay is not considered a reputable coin seller, as such, can't be used for this purpose.
Swap values are entirely different than retail values that retailers are only interested in. Numista is not a retail shop. Coin collectors use a variety of methods to determine fair swap values and usually agree to use the same standard during swap negotiations. You cant have one side valuing theirs at Redbook retail values while the other is valuing yours at wholesale Bluebook value for instance. I get those offers all the time and promptly reject them. During negotiations, I suggest a compromise average between wholesale and retail values on both sides of the swap. Is it any wonder why a long time lurker who's primary interest in coins is profits is now a member concerned with our valuation methods fearing what a potential buyer might see?
I would add that your question should be properly titled coin values and not coin prices.
This explains to me the issue of why the coin prices don't match retail - a combination of incomplete data sets and swap values being different to retail or even wholesale values.
The value is based on 7 self-reported buying prices from Numista members. Six of these values are under 20 Australian dollars; only brismike's value is $400. I suspect that most members may have wrongly recorded their coin, and they have the coinN#152588 instead.
The same scenario probably occurs for other rare varieties, when a more common and cheaper variety exists.
I need to implement a way to report and override values when the value is obviously wrong.
I need to implement a way to report and override values when the value is obviously wrong.
Hey Xavier, thank you for looking into it.
I'll be my own devil's advocate and say that it's possible the average price is something much lower than current market value, because the regular strike of that Red Poppy used to retail for $15. 10 Years ago. And even 2 years ago it was only reaching $150.
That being said, an override would be nice. I was also going to suggest that zero values are ignored when calculating the average.
Numista values are often below the current retail prices for 2 reasons:
Numista members sometimes get good deals when getting their lots, either buying from a friend or in lots. So they tend to buy cheaper than the market price.
Values are also based on older values (even if they are considered with a lower relative weight), whereas prices usually tend to go up.
I would also like to clarify that zero values are already ignored and the values are based on a (weighted) median, not the average, so that outlying values don't have much influence on the calculated value.
The value is based on 7 self-reported buying prices from Numista members. Six of these values are under 20 Australian dollars; only brismike's value is $400. I suspect that most members may have wrongly recorded their coin, and they have the coinN#152588 instead.
The same scenario probably occurs for other rare varieties, when a more common and cheaper variety exists.
I need to implement a way to report and override values when the value is obviously wrong.
Hi Xavier - I have a very good idea of what the current value is of various Australian coins. If you need any assistance in overriding the current values I can help with that. 😉
The values indicated according to the state are “indicative”, intended to balance the exchanges between members, they cannot reflect the exact fluctuating values of the market without having to modify the status and the organization of the site for a constant and international observation. This scale could have been alphabetical: A, B, C, D…
I almost always include the price I've purchased things at, but I would like to know whether we also have to select a coin grade for Numista to use the input price for its calculations?
I'm asking because I only input prices and not grades since I don't know how to grade my coins.🤷♂️
The way you enter your data will give you a summary of how much you've spend but it will not influence Numista's values.
Without a a selection how should your value be applied to a grade otherwise?
I see you have a couple of BU and proof collections so I would guess the majority would be UNC.
Grading isn't always easy but especially for modern coins it is quickly learnable. There are many sites on the internet with examplex like NGC with their US currency we also had a page in Numisdoc with a few examples (LINK).
Hi - Nice to have you as an ex lurker and now a member. I am the referee for Australian coins and have done a lot of work to try to get the Australian section of Numista up to scratch. When I joined in 2015 it was a dogs breakfast, but now it is pretty good.
The coin prices/values on here are calculated by some kind of algorithm which looks at how many coins of the type there are listed on Numista and if the members that have it, have put a value on it, it does some kind of calculation. It is not very accurate especially when it comes to actual market value of especially Australian coins.
With regards to the 2012 & 2018 Red Poppy coin you highlighted I have got 3 of them in my collection.
The standard 2012 RSL issue is valued at $37 UNC by Numista - I have my personal one valued at $200.
The 2012 “C” mintmark Carded version does not even have a value on here but I have mine valued at $400.
The 2018 re-issue is valued at $6.48 by Numista which is a joke, my personal one is valued at $400.
I don't think there is much we can do about it until a lot more members who have this coin put their valuation on it. A lot of people don't bother to do that.
Cheers Mike
Hi Mike & Admin
I also seek clarification on the ‘value’ talked about here.
The info requested re value when cataloguing a coin is the ‘buying price’.
I interpreted this to be the price the owner purchased the coin for.
Say if I obtained the coin at face value, and put that info in, this Would lower the ‘value’ stated on Numista.
I don’t see how the values stated on Numista can ever be relevant, if the algorithm is based on the ‘buying price’ stated by an owner, as it is to open for interpretation .
I should think that the price paid to purchase a coin would be intrinsically it's value. I'm also sure there are statistical means to ignore outliers if that is a concern.
I also seek clarification on the ‘value’ talked about here.
The info requested re value when cataloguing a coin is the ‘buying price’.
I interpreted this to be the price the owner purchased the coin for.
Say if I obtained the coin at face value, and put that info in, this Would lower the ‘value’ stated on Numista.
I don’t see how the values stated on Numista can ever be relevant, if the algorithm is based on the ‘buying price’ stated by an owner, as it is to open for interpretation .
Numista values are based on the median of the values inputted by the members. As such, by definition, outliers do not affect the value.
You are not required to use the Numista values for anything but they are a good estimate of what you can expect to pay or get for a coin sold outside of Numista.
A case in point of values on Numista not reflecting the current market is the Australian 2012 $2 Red Poppy coin issued in an RSL card. Coin is uncirculated.
Original cost was $10.
Numista indicate a value of $40.
It is currently being marketed and sold for between $280 - 355.
A case in point of values on Numista not reflecting the current market is the Australian 2012 $2 Red Poppy coin issued in an RSL card. Coin is uncirculated.
Original cost was $10.
Numista indicate a value of $40.
It is currently being marketed and sold for between $280 - 355.
Which is why I have the value on my copy as AU$350.
And they have been sold for higher prices than that too. Not much we can do about the people that have the coin on Numista that have valued it at a much lower price and have not bothered to update it. Hence the median price is dragged down.
Unless the Referee is somehow allowed to override the Numista calculated median price with a more accurate Market Value price.
Cheers Mike
Master Referee - See my profile for what I collect.
would also suggest another term is used other than ‘buying price’. This assumes all coins are purchased, and may attract a lesser value is inserted, as explained earlier.
the means by which the valuation is calculated is flawed and should be removed or replaced.
the current system may cause someone to sell their coins at an undervalued price.
Say if I obtained the coin at face value, and put that info in, this Would lower the ‘value’ stated on Numista.
I don’t see how the values stated on Numista can ever be relevant, if the algorithm is based on the ‘buying price’ stated by an owner, as it is to open for interpretation .
Coins that has been give to me, and coins I have gotten through change and circulation, I do not put a value for, since I didn't buy them. A coin in change is not a purchase, is more like a “refundable” coin due to overpaying for an object.
The main question here is also, should the shipping cost be included in the total cost of the coin (since it is what I payed for it in total), or should it be excluded, since people can put whatever shipping prices they like?
I have put a value on 82% of my collection. The 12% un-valued (if that's a word) is probably coins I have received from changed, friends, family, Numista Christmas gift, and swaps - thus it's not a purchase. I have also excluded shipping costs due to the previous statement.
Hello guys, hello girls, it's nice to play together.
First of all, I have to write that it is great - very good that we have at least some value indicators. Yes, it has many shortcomings, but that's the case with everything when there are many variables here factors that are unexpected and variable over time.
- Taking as a fact the price I bought the coin 10 years ago and its value today is a big difference
-The main difference between pre-covid and post-covid is the financial difference of 20% with our inflation in the Czechia and the increase in prices for coins at auctions.
Simply and clearly, prices change over time and that's a fact.
What makes me smile the most is the price of still valid coins and banknotes at a,,numista,,( The price, even in the "G" rating, should not be lower than the value of a valid banknote or coin.)
Example:
Czechia -and our still valid banknote that I keep in my wallet and shop with. If anyone can get it for less than me, please take the whole rail car. I'm going to buy a lot of those papers 1,2 100 I will buy a hundred tons.
the price below 9 USD is meaningless - because it is still a valid banknote
50 Kč:
Price below $2.24 Is introductory for a valid coin
20 crowns is 0.90 $ - however, they can be found as written on the website for 0,15, 0,19$
This nonsense also applies to 100 dollar bills - that I would buy them for 20 $?
Or 200 euros for 10 $?
So the price is stationary - it only takes into account the price on the day of purchases and valid banknotes and coins even below their valid nominal value on the market.
This indicator cannot be guided when buying and selling coins, and certainly not their value at a given moment.
It is the figure for the price that collectors achieved when buying from a third party. Total data that cannot be used for value. And certainly not to evaluate the collection as a whole.
,, Just my experience of the last months gives me the idea of a 30% increase in the price of the collection,,
A case in point of values on Numista not reflecting the current market is the Australian 2012 $2 Red Poppy coin issued in an RSL card. Coin is uncirculated.
Yes, this example was already discussed above. I find it hard to believe that one example or 10 or 100 examples of obviously wrong values are enough to totally trash the system that has crowd sourced generated millions of values.
No prices should be given if not at least 20 values from members have been entered……
I believe the number is 4. Also included are recent auction sales. Also, more weight is given to recent values rather than older values. Also, based on median value not average value. Anything else I'm missing?
No prices should be given if not at least 20 values from members have been entered……
I believe the number is 4. Also included are recent auction sales. Also, more weight is given to recent values rather than older values. Also, based on median value not average value. Anything else I'm missing?
The auction sales for me is NOT a good indicator. I really have my doubts about the so called Numista prices. Try to give some fictional values for a coin (for the fun of it, you can always delete your prices), give it 4 or more times and then see, it was taken into account? I did, and no, it was not. Hence, I don't for the moment consider to exchange for “numista” values.
No prices should be given if not at least 20 values from members have been entered……
I believe the number is 4. Also included are recent auction sales. Also, more weight is given to recent values rather than older values. Also, based on median value not average value. Anything else I'm missing?
The auction sales for me is NOT a good indicator. I really have my doubts about the so called Numista prices. Try to give some fictional values for a coin (for the fun of it, you can always delete your prices), give it 4 or more times and then see, it was taken into account? I did, and no, it was not. Hence, I don't for the moment consider to exchange for “numista” values.
Ah yes. Knew I forgot something. Entering the same coin multiple times by the same user only is counted one time.
How about when adding a purchased value, we add the date of purchase thus taking the time factor into consideration.
I know it wouldn‘t help on the short term, but on the long term we may have enough data to build a statistical trend for coin price through time or at least normalized value.
How about when adding a purchased value, we add the date of purchase thus taking the time factor into consideration.
I believe the date of entering the coin/value is already taken into consideration. Numista keeps track of the exact date/time every coin is entered into your collection. Here's a partial screenshot of Journal of my collection page I just took:
If it’s included in the mathematical model That would be amazing, but date of entry may not be the date of purchase. I may have bought a coin 3 years ago but just added It to Numista today, it’s value today may be completely different
If it’s included in the mathematical model That would be amazing, but date of entry may not be the date of purchase. I may have bought a coin 3 years ago but just added It to Numista today, it’s value today may be completely different
Yes, that may be true but 3 years after purchase do you remember what you bought it for or even when you bought it? Regardless, I think it's very improbable that Numista members will fill in that extra date.
I believe the date of entering the coin/value is already taken into consideration. Numista keeps track of the exact date/time every coin is entered into your collection. Here's a partial screenshot of Journal of my collection page I just took:
Remeber that from the beginning we couldn't add values. And during the past two/three years I have added values to my coins and banknotes, which some of them was bought more than 10 years ago. So it could actually be a good idea to add ToP (Time of Purchase) as a factor.
I believe the date of entering the coin/value is already taken into consideration. Numista keeps track of the exact date/time every coin is entered into your collection. Here's a partial screenshot of Journal of my collection page I just took:
Remeber that from the beginning we couldn't add values. And during the past two/three years I have added values to my coins and banknotes, which some of them was bought more than 10 years ago. So it could actually be a good idea to add ToP (Time of Purchase) as a factor.
That is very true. My case is similar. I joined Numista Dec. 2020. In the next few months I entered my existing collection, some of which I could have had for 40+ years. No way I would have known when I acquired them or for how much. I did probably what most people did, entered a value I estimated they were worth.
I think, there is no other way to do it. Even now, you have the problem of the postage costs, which supposedly shouldn't enter the coin cost calculation, but they do more and more! Change 10 coins for a value of 10 and then 5 to send them.
The argument against that, is that swapped coins will all the time add postal costs! The coins in your collection normally only once, if you don't exchange for better grades….
If you don't add the postal costs, you're fast becoming a “loser” on your double coins, right?
How about we make the default date is the date of entry, but add a field in case we want to over-ride the entry date. I think this is necessary if we want to provide more accurate data that can predict the value more accurately in the future , yet it is not compulsory for all members to add it.
the price below 9 USD is meaningless - because it is still a valid banknote
Price below $2.24 Is introductory for a valid coin
20 crowns is 0.90 $ - however, they can be found as written on the website for 0,15, 0,19$ 
