USA Tokens and States

Greetings,

I have started another forum post and this idea branched off of it. There are some American Tokens that were used as coins. Just as there are tokens from other countries in the coin catalogue, I do not see why we can’t have American tokens in the coin catalogue. So I am trying to say the following tokens should be moved to the coin catalogue, and all of the  states should be added to Numista as a whole. 

Tokens to be moved to coin catalogue:

Hard Times Tokens

Pre 1864 Civil War Tokens

Tax Tokens (As they are state issued coins that just had very low denominations)

Local Administration Tokens that actually at one point could have been used

So Called Dollars that actually at one point could have been used

Tokens/Coins from USA Western Colonies and other USA Territorial coins

States to be added as sub—issuers of USA:

All of them.

Do any of you have any suggestions for this idea?

Berkshire Collecting

Do any of you have any suggestions for this idea?

Can you provide evidence of how these pieces circulated and were used? At the moment, the vote is very much against this change but, if you can prove they were used as coins, things might change.

A bit of research is needed on these, I think.

A quick search for Hard Times Tokens reveals this:

https://museumofcthistory.org/hard-times-tokens/

which suggests that they circulated as currency for some time.

I will now list my reasoning for why these should be in coins/how they circulated as coins:

Hard Times Tokens:

To quote the Museum of Connecticut History, “They came to be accepted as legal tender as the depression deepened and gold, silver, and, eventually, copper coins disap¬peared from circulation due to bank failures and hoarding by the public.” This shows that if they were accepted as legal tender they were there so accepted along as or equal to coins. https://museumofcthistory.org/hard-times-tokens/

Pre 1864 Civil War Tokens:

To quote the American Numismatic Association, “These cent sized tokens served as both a means of advertising for businesses and a method of payment.” This again proves they were used as payment and did circulate. These were technically legal to use until 1864, so 1863 and before have the acceptance to be considered as coins. https://www.money.org/collector/user_5712/blog/history-of-civil-war-tokens

Tax Tokens:

To quote the New York Historical Society, “Twelve states issued coin-like tax tokens, which were made of aluminum, copper, zinc, brass, plastic, fiber, cardboard, and paper.” This proves that states officially issued these, furthermore as they did circulate, they are just very low denomination state issued coins. https://emuseum.nyhistory.org/objects/53394/tax-tokens;jsessionid=C09FC42EC54787C0718EF1650E9AEFB3

Local Administration Tokens:

There are many of these. Some that local towns, cities, and even counties issued. This one is likely controversial, but it was allowed to be used in the whole county. To quote this page on Numista, “GOOD FOR 50¢ IN CASH OR TRADE AT ANY PLACE OF BUSINESS OR BANK IN
MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA ON OR BEFORE THE CLOSING OF BUSINESS FEB. 14, 1961.” This was allowed to be used at one point, so it was a coin made for circulation. N#163446

So Called Dollars:

To quote APMEX, “These were called ‘Referendum’ Dollars because even after the Election of 1896, these Dollars were circulated in Colorado.” As these were circulated it proves that they were used as coins. Other So Called Dollars did circulate and should be in the coin catalogue for that reason. https://learn.apmex.com/learning-guide/lesher-referendum-dollars-1900-1901/

Tokens/Coins from USA Western Colonies and other USA Territorial coins:

A lot of these are official issues. Brigham Young was a governor of the Utah Territory and issued coins for Utah. These coins did circulate and were official issues. To quote an article from the state of Utah, “When the coins were first circulated in St. Louis by Salt Lake merchants who used them to pay for merchandise, the $20 were accepted at $18 because of the touch of silver alloy. In the valley, however, the coins went for face value.” https://historytogo.utah.gov/doubloons/

Good enough for me. 

These tokens have an equivalence to some of the Irish tokens which are listed among the coins.

To the people that downvoted, why did you downvote? Also thank you to the people that upvoted.

While you are campaigning for this, what about Transit tokens? Issued by states or municipalities in lieu of money.

What about the Havasu Dollar?  Wage tokens issued as payment then used in company stores? “Good for” tokens used locally instead of money?

This is why I down voted. Slippery slope you create based on how you interpret coins. 
 

I know your argument of what about Notgeld tokens. I personally think they belong in Exonumia but that is just my opinion.

Jerry

There is a difference between these and the ones I am suggesting. For starter, transit tokens could only be used for transit. You could not go to a store and buy food with transit tokens.

Transit tokens - Should stay in exonumia, as they could not be used in trade.

Havasu Dollar - Should be moved to coin catalogue as this one states, “THIS COIN MAY BE REDEEMED FOR ONE DOLLAR IN TRADE IN LAKE HAVASU CITY.” It seems it was issued for use in the local community and there by legal tender of the local community in trade. So it is a local administration token and I already explained why those should be in the coin catalogue. It should go to the coin catalogue: N#121958

Wage tokens: This should be discussed in another forum post. I believe that they should stay in exonumia, because they were issued privately and were only used in specific stores, they did not circulate throughout a community. However, I am open to other ideas on these.

“Good for” tokens used locally instead of money: This is  a harder one to determine. I would say we should find the ones that circulated widely throughout a community and put those in coins. We would have to determine a difference between ones that were used only in specific stores of a community and ones used throughout a community. I would say put some in coins keep others in exonumia.

Finally, I am not recommending all tokens to be moved to the coin catalogue, just ones with reasonable explanations. We should handle this on a case by case basis. This forum post was for the ones I recommended, not all tokens. I stick to my stance that Hard Times Tokens, Pre 1864 Civil War Tokens, Tax Tokens, Local Administration Tokens, So Called Dollars, and Tokens/Coins from USA Western Colonies and other USA Territorial coins should be in the coin catalogue. The ones I mentioned above in response to your post (JLHare) should be discussed in other forum topics, except the Havasu Dollar, as it was a local administration token. We must handle these by a case by case basis. I respect your opinion for downvoting and thank you for your explanation.

I believe there might be a room for US notgeld issuer(s). However, I am unsure what would fit in  the category.

I believe the most important ones to be added would be the territorial gold. The Mormon (Utah) Gold, some California gold, Oregon gold, and some others, were semi-official.

Also tax tokens and local administration tokens were semi official too.

I've also advocated for better consistency among Notgeld/necessary/and other so-called “emergency coinage. US ”Hard Time Tokens" get lumped into the undignified “Unclassified exonumia” section (and a few are listed as Business tokens.) 🤷Whereas similar tokens from Germany, France, Poland, Algeria, Belgium, and even Senegal are listed as “coins”.

I wrote about this already in the past but to no avail. 

All local admin. tokens (many Canadian, Belgian, French…) were issued and used as limited time/place currency and therefore should be treated as coins. 

Exonumia should be exactly what the name means: all coin/note-like pieces not used for trade (outside of specific business entity). 

Or, if there's a general disagreement on them being classified as coins, make a new exonumia category: “currency tokens”. 

For the moment, we use following criteria - government issued (even at lower levels - states, departments, cities) are in the coin section. Privately issued (people, companies) are put in exonumia.

If there is some government issued token that should be in the coin section, let me know.

For the moment, we use following criteria - government issued (even at lower levels - states, departments, cities) are in the coin section.

Based on this statement I am already getting request to move tokens to coins.

N#262339

N#262337

N#262336

I rejected the request and asked the member that submitted to appeal as I did not think these apply. But based on the above statement all tax, transit tokens and mint medals are to be moved?

I wrote that I am not sure if there are such tokens and that I should be made aware.

Please reject them and I would like to ask the requestors to not do that. If such things exist, there will be new necessity coinage section for US created, entirely separate from standard US coinage.

Those were handled by Tdziemia right?

My understanding is that these (Hard Times Tokens) were largely private issues that came into circulation broadly across the U.S. at times when government issued coins were relatively scarce.   

On Hard Times Tokens, the Yeoman catalog gives them their own section and says this:

Privately minted from 1832 to 1844, they display diverse motifs reflecting political campaigns and satire of the era as well as carrying advertisements for merchants, products and services.

and later …

After May 10, 1837, silver and gold coins completely disappeared from circulation.  Copper cents remained, but were in short supply.  Various diesinkers and others produced a flood of copper tokens.  These were sold at discounts to merchants and banks … they were paid out in commerce and circulated for the value of one cent. 

Maybe this is similar to the UK Conder token situation in 1790s?   But the PCGS listing of U.S. coin types does not include them. 

And maybe different from the territorial gold that was being struck and used in places that were not yet U.S. states (and which are included by PCGS, but maybe not for objecive reasons).

As for tokens made during the Depression, I am not convinced.  I am certain my parents never used such wooden “coins.”