Moving Silesia under Poland

In reference to this topic : https://en.numista.com/forum/topic138373.html#p1111086

please move Silesia under Polish states.

Regards,

Damian

As Silesia is just for coins of the royal mints of Bohemia located in Silesia, I would rather merge it with Bohemia. Unless I'm wrong somehow?

Compendium

As Silesia is just for coins of the royal mints of Bohemia located in Silesia, I would rather merge it with Bohemia. Unless I'm wrong somehow?

Most of Silesian cities are part of Poland same as  Drossen city. If you place Drossen city under polish states ,Silesia and other issuers i sent you also should be place under polish cities.One way or another. In my opinion Silesia should stay as it is , the rest links also and Drossen city should be under German states as at that part of time they belong to German.

Regards,

Damian

Numista guidelines state that we use current borders to sort past entities like cities, counties, duchies etc

Its why for instance HRE states are distributed all over France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Austria etc

Bigger entites like kingdoms which existed over multiple countries have their own entry, like Bohemia, HRE, Khanate of Crimea etc

Compendium

Numista guidelines state that we use current borders to sort past entities like cities, counties, duchies etc

Its why for instance HRE states are distributed all over France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Poland, Austria etc

 

Bigger entites like kingdoms which existed over multiple countries have their own entry, like Bohemia, HRE, Khanate of Crimea etc

Silesia was not a country or issuer this is a set of principalities, cities, dutchies in the region called Silesia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesia

I dont even know why this is under Bohemia. From 64 cities 10 are now under Czechia 2 or 3 under Germany about 50 are now part of Poland.

If Numista guidelines state that we use current borders to sort past entities like cities, counties, duchies etc please move this 50 cities from Bohemia  Silesia under Polish states. and create  Polish Silesia States ?

I vote to create a new country called Silesian States. We could add there polish silesia german silesia and czech silesia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_Silesia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemia

In my opinion placed Silesia under Bohemia is the same as you put Germany under Danzig. - I purposely used such a comparison to set the context

doc_man

In my opinion placed Silesia under Bohemia is the same as you put Germany under Danzig. - I purposely used such a comparison to set the context

It is like place Grand Duchy of Lithuania under Lithuania:)

This is all a very strange debate. The only reason for this huge discussion is a rule of numista.

Facts and history cannot be changed/ altered, rules can. The rule might be useful in some cases, especially modern ones, but simply were not made with the much bigger scope of German, french, italian and other small states in mind. In my opinion Silesia should be a issuer under the german states, or as a separate issuer. It does not make sense as a polish state, as at the time the upper classes of Silesia weren’t even polish to begin with.

Danzig also feels misplaced under Poland.

I think the rule causing all these problems should be reevaluated, not the very basis of our catalogue.

This is not only the much more logical solution, but much more convenient for collectors

Yes, definetly in some cases this rule just shall not be implied. The catalogue structure shall be logical and useful rather than blindly made by the non-universal rule. 

Wertinas

This is all a very strange debate. The only reason for this huge discussion is a rule of numista.

Facts and history cannot be changed/ altered, rules can. The rule might be useful in some cases, especially modern ones, but simply were not made with the much bigger scope of German, french, italian and other small states in mind. In my opinion Silesia should be a issuer under the german states, or as a separate issuer. It does not make sense as a polish state, as at the time the upper classes of Silesia weren’t even polish to begin with.

Danzig also feels misplaced under Poland.

I think the rule causing all these problems should be reevaluated, not the very basis of our catalogue.

 

This is not only the much more logical solution, but much more convenient for collectors

Agree with you. 

Danzig should be separate same as Free city of Cracow. etc They are listed under Poland because now they are part of Poland.

Wertinas

…..

 

Danzig also feels misplaced under Poland.

I think the rule causing all these problems should be reevaluated, not the very basis of our catalogue.

 

This is not only the much more logical solution, but much more convenient for collectors

Gdansk/Danzig is perhaps a bit different.

For most of its early numismatic history (c.1450-1793), it was a mint operating within the Polish state, first the Kingdom of Poland, and then the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.  Coins struck there bore the name of the King of Poland for nearly 350 years.

tdziemia

Wertinas

…..

 

Danzig also feels misplaced under Poland.

I think the rule causing all these problems should be reevaluated, not the very basis of our catalogue.

 

This is not only the much more logical solution, but much more convenient for collectors

Gdansk/Danzig is perhaps a bit different.

 

For most of its early numismatic history (c.1450-1793), it was a mint operating within the Polish state, first the Kingdom of Poland, and then the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.  Coins struck there bore the name of the King of Poland for nearly 350 years.

 

 

Yes, you are right, but this coin wasn't issued by polish mint, during 350 years of it history. I get request to placed under polish states just because this city now is under polish borders.

Going back at time from polish history by Wikipedia :

In the 1st century AD there was an invasion of Germanic tribes of Vandals, Burgundians and others who came from northern Europe (Jutland, Mecklenburg, Rügen, Bornholm).The former then became part of the Lugii tribal association, which remained under strong Celtic influence. The period of Vandal domination in southern and central Poland lasted until approximately the 4th century and is associated with the archaeological Przeworsk culture[15]. In the meantime, they came from Scandinavia (Västergötland, Östergötland, Gotland) in the 1st century AD. Germanic Goths and Gepids who settled in Gdańsk Pomerania, where they remained for about 150 years. They created the archaeological Wielbark culture[16]. The Goths expanded their headquarters to Kujawy, Greater Poland and Masovia, and then began to migrate along the Vistula and Bug rivers southeast towards the Black Sea, reaching Crimea. The Gepids later moved south, occupied the areas on the Tisza, and then took over the Pannonian Basin and Transylvania. At that time, the entire Central Europe was also under significant cultural and civilizational influence of the great Mediterranean Roman Empire.