Wrong language

I am very uncomfortable with the translation into Italian because the classification of the states of conservation is wrong. 
VF is shown as MB instead of BB and this is wrong...

Then I want to use the English version. 

So in the settings I indicate English. 

But every time I open Numista I am offered the Italian version....

Make a book mark of THIS or other pages or enter the en. in front of numista.com otherwise Numista will forward you to the corresponding language from your location settings of your browser. 

Idolenz

Make a book mark of THIS or other pages or enter the en. in front of numista.com otherwise Numista will forward you to the corresponding language from your location settings of your browser. 

I often use Google to do searches because that's how I find the cards. 
If I use the Numista search it doesn't always work. 

For example, if I write: "cecoslovacchia 10 1956"  (Cecoslovacchia is italian term for Czechoslovakia) Numista is not able to find the correct page. Google yes. 

So I don't use a bookmark to enter Numista. 
Even if I search for particular nations using the international term Numista wants absolute precision otherwise he won't find the coin (for example Kyrgyzstan). 
So very often I start from Google which unfortunately takes me to the Italian page. 
But if I have set English in the settings, why not make sure that the display is in English
Thank you

Italian translation is not fully done, I have added Cecoslovacchia translation myself now.

MicheleTN

I am very uncomfortable with the translation into Italian because the classification of the states of conservation is wrong. 
VF is shown as MB instead of BB and this is wrong…

In the Spanish translation I use the Sheldon scale (as in the English side): G, VG, F, VF, XF, AU, UNC. I only translated the names (e.g. VF = Very fine = (ES) Muy fino).

I think the best is use the same scale in all languages, to easily compare different collections.

MicheleTN

Then I want to use the English version. 

So in the settings I indicate English. 

But every time I open Numista I am offered the Italian version....

You set Italian in your settings. And when you want to use other language, select it from the button above.

Hello,

There is not much we can do to prevent you from seeing an Italian page. If Google shows you a link to the Italian version of the page, we can't really know whether you ended up on the Italian page on purpose or not. In that case, no redirection is done.

Regarding the translation of the grades, @loruca , @GiannaReggio , can you please help and advise whether we should change the translations of the grades in Italian?
The Standard Catalog of World Coins gives the following mapping:

@davidhs , the Sheldon scale is the scale from 1 to 70, currently not in use on Numista. Why did you choose to keep the grade codes in English? It seems that the Spanish numismatic community uses other codes such as BC, MBC, EBC (example: https://www.jesusvico.com/es/lote/I23-2701-2701/773-462-fernando-vii). Wouldn't it make sense to use them?

The Italian Wikipedia has a nice table which shows the complexity of this topic. There is not really a perfect mapping. The table highlights some shortcomings of the grades on Numista for the mapping between English  and French and even between U.S.A. and Great Britain.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservazione_(numismatica)

And here is another mapping: https://fr.numista.com/forum/topic90660.html

Xavier

The Italian Wikipedia has a nice table which shows the complexity of this topic. There is not really a perfect mapping. The table highlights some shortcomings of the grades on Numista for the mapping between English  and French and even between U.S.A. and Great Britain.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservazione_(numismatica)

Thank you for your reply

I think that the correct corrispondece is VF=BB




All the coins I entered as VF I consider them BB. 
Now they appear to me as MB :-(

 

MicheleTN

All the coins I entered as VF I consider them BB. 
Now they appear to me as MB :-(

It's a complicated problem, despite the SCoWC saying US & English speaking… the UK does not use the Sheldon scale.

I like the conversion table previously posted by stratocaster.

In English, UK (S) what we consider Very Fine (VF) would be Bellissimo (BB) in Italian, but it needs to be entered on Numista as XF/AU to accurately reflect the coins actual grade.

inc7007

MicheleTN

All the coins I entered as VF I consider them BB. 
Now they appear to me as MB :-(

It's a complicated problem, despite the SCoWC saying US & English speaking… the UK does not use the Sheldon scale.

I like the conversion table previously posted by stratocaster.

In English, UK (S) what we consider Very Fine (VF) would be Bellissimo (BB) in Italian, but it needs to be entered on Numista as XF/AU to accurately reflect the coins actual grade.

 

Thanks for the very kind reply.

But the problem remains. 

In my humble opinion we should leave the original evaluation scale as the evaluation scale because now for the Italian collectors who have classified following that scale the transformation leads to errors in degrees of consistent states of conservation. 

I have 18907 and if I were to change the classification of all of them I would never finish. 

Furthermore, by transforming all the MB into BB I would be "cheating" on the original classification. 

I find no solution other than maintaining a single gradation scale. 

Thank you

MicheleTN

I find no solution other than maintaining a single gradation scale. 

As things stand renaming MB to BB would fix nothing as Numista is related to the US Sheldon scale so VF is MB (Fine in UK English).  I was simply pointing out that Numista doesn't use the UK English scale, so what would look like a VF coin to me in the UK would look like a BB coin to you… is probably an AU coin on Numista (I don't expect you to regrade your collection) just keep in mind the differences. 

The problem is more than a translation issue…

Xavier

@davidhs , the Sheldon scale is the scale from 1 to 70, currently not in use on Numista. Why did you choose to keep the grade codes in English? It seems that the Spanish numismatic community uses other codes such as BC, MBC, EBC (example: https://www.jesusvico.com/es/lote/I23-2701-2701/773-462-fernando-vii). Wouldn't it make sense to use them?

 

I am sorry, really I (and Numista) do not use the Sheldon scale, the grades UNC, XF, VF, F... are from Krause catalog. I had a bit of mess.

davidhs

Xavier

@davidhs , the Sheldon scale is the scale from 1 to 70, currently not in use on Numista. Why did you choose to keep the grade codes in English? It seems that the Spanish numismatic community uses other codes such as BC, MBC, EBC (example: https://www.jesusvico.com/es/lote/I23-2701-2701/773-462-fernando-vii). Wouldn't it make sense to use them?

 

I am sorry, really I (and Numista) do not use the Sheldon scale, the grades UNC, XF, VF, F... are from Krause catalog. I had a bit of mess.

 

I think that the only solution is to use always Krause scale (UNC, AU, XF, VF, F…)

Any other solution brings problems for all those who have already classified their coins

davidhs

I think the best is use the same scale in all languages, to easily compare different collections.

Problem is a US collector can grade a coin VF, and a UK collector can do likewise, both speak English but these coins are not the same grade.

I think the only viable long-term solution is for Numista to create its own grading scale.

For example:  A,  B,  C,  D,  E,  F.   /or/   1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Then numista can define these grades in all interface languages, so we can consistently grade across all languages (even within the same language).

inc7007

davidhs

I think the best is use the same scale in all languages, to easily compare different collections.

Problem is a US collector can grade a coin VF, and a UK collector can do likewise, both speak English but these coins are not the same grade.

 

I think the only viable long-term solution is for Numista to create its own grading scale.

For example:  A,  B,  C,  D,  E,  F.   /or/   1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Then numista can define these grades in all interface languages, so we can consistently grade across all languages (even within the same language).

In my opinion, the majority of collectors on Numista today, if they have read the instructions, have used the Krause system. Changing now would be a disaster for almost everyone

MicheleTN

In my opinion, the majority of collectors on Numista today, if they have read the instructions, have used the Krause system. Changing now would be a disaster for almost everyone

But the Krause scale (being a US scale) is linked to the Sheldon scale, so all your VF coins are MB in Italian.

inc7007

MicheleTN

In my opinion, the majority of collectors on Numista today, if they have read the instructions, have used the Krause system. Changing now would be a disaster for almost everyone

But the Krause scale (being a US scale) is linked to the Sheldon scale, so all your VF coins are MB in Italian.

The scale must not be "translated" but must remain UNC, AU, XF, VF... Every "translation" leads to errors. If we had started with the possibility of including Italian ranks it would have been something else. It's too late now and adding scales that aren't one-to-one only brings problems.

What you now see as a problem is the case for over 15 years.
We already changed the grades multiple times we added AUNC then G a while after (How it looked in the past). Before it was more like descriptive grading (yes, leaned on KM but it started as a French site) now it's some kind of hybrid. Grading is already  quite a subjective thing, adding different grading standards only exasperated things but we can't really do much about that personally I would never use the Sheldon scale. I grade on the descriptive scale and always thought that many US coins in slabs are way over graded until I stumbled over the  grading table comparison pictures like already posted or this one from NGC.

All in all, if you are in the business of swapping and care for the grade ask for pictures.

MicheleTN

The scale must not be "translated" but must remain UNC, AU, XF, VF... Every "translation" leads to errors. If we had started with the possibility of including Italian ranks it would have been something else. It's too late now and adding scales that aren't one-to-one only brings problems.

I agree, but we should not use pre-existing labels either, because the label VF means different things to different people in the same language, never mind across languages… however if we labelled it ‘C’ or ‘3’ it would be defined by Numista, not a pre-existing expectation about what you (or I) think a VF coin looks like. 

Some years ago I found this table (I do not remember where):

and other table (from http://www.numisma.org/, a defunct website) with these grades:

English:  UNC  AU  XF     VF     F        VG  G
Spanish: SC      ?     SC-  EBC  MBC  BC  ?

But according to…

• Krause:
  English:  UNC  AU  XF     VF       F        VG  G
  Spanish: SC      ?     EBC  MBC  BC+  BC  RC
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coin_grading#European_grading_system
  Sheldon:       MS-60/64   AU      XF     VF       F       VG  G
  English GB:  BU                 UNC  XF     VF       F       VG  G
  Spanish:        SC                 ?         EBC  MBC  BC+  BC  RC
• https://fr.numista.com/forum/topic90660.html
  USA (Sheldon?):  MS-65  MS-63   AU      XF      F        G
  English GB:            UNC      MS          XF      VF      F        VG
  Spanish:                  FDC      SC           EBC   MBC  BC+  BC 

That is why I chose not to use a Spanish scale, and only translate the words from the Numista scale. Also, I use this https://en.numista.com/numisdoc/how-to-grade-my-coin-58.html

I found this old topic https://en.numista.com/forum/topic81256.html about the same problem.

Same issue: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic150072.html

I revive this topic hoping it will be resolved in one way or other, valid in all languages of Numista (currents and future), not just in English and French.

As I have said, I found different correspondences between the grading scales in English and Spanish. https://en.numista.com/forum/topic145957.html#p1159192 To avoid problems when the user uses the interface in Spanish or English, as a Spanish translator I decided keep the grading in English (the abbreviations), translating the meaning.

Of course, if we provide a scale with an unambiguous translation, I will use it in the translation.

Also I suggest create a FAQ article that explain each grade in Numista, similar to the old Numisdoc article: https://en.numista.com/numisdoc/how-to-grade-my-coin-58.html

davidhs

Same issue: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic150072.html

 

I revive this topic hoping it will be resolved in one way or other, valid in all languages of Numista (currents and future), not just in English and French.

 

As I have said, I found different correspondences between the grading scales in English and Spanish. https://en.numista.com/forum/topic145957.html#p1159192 To avoid problems when the user uses the interface in Spanish or English, as a Spanish translator I decided keep the grading in English (the abbreviations), translating the meaning.

 

Of course, if we provide a scale with an unambiguous translation, I will use it in the translation.

 

Also I suggest create a FAQ article that explain each grade in Numista, similar to the old Numisdoc article: https://en.numista.com/numisdoc/how-to-grade-my-coin-58.html

Hi David, I think your decision is perfect. Many collectors in Spain understand the abbreviations, for example, XF, better than EBC. Also, if you click on each abbreviation, the description appears in Spanish. It's perfect for me.