Various changes but what I questioned to the submitter was “Can a counterfeit be demonetized?”
The response I got “It was meant to circulate in lieu of regular currency. It certainly is not in use now, therefore demonetized.”
After thinking about it it does not make sense to me, another part of the CR was to add a ruling authority of “George III (1760-1783)”
If it is counterfeited, then George III is not the ruling authority and if it was counterfeited by a country that isn't a country for use in the territory then it isn't monetized and can not be demonetized regardless of its uses. Right?
Ruling Authority and Demonetized should both be removed?
We need to consider how the database behind the catalogue works. At present, it appears to assume that all pieces begin as money, either circulating or non-circulating. Clearly, this isn't always the case, as illustrated here. By using the "type" field to classify counterfeits, that clear distinction is lost. A more logical way would be to have a field indicating if a piece was money to begin with, a second to indicate if it was placed into circulation, a third for if it has been withdrawn from circulation and a fourth for if it has ceased to be money. Additional fields, such as copy (contemporary counterfeit or modern imitation) and dates, can be added to refine the description. The website can then interpret the various settings into a title.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
IMHO a counterfeit cannot be considered demonetized as it was never money.
However due to the current limitation, listing it as not demonetized would confuse, and unknown is inaccurate. Best to list such items as demonetized for now…
But the limitation does needs to be addressed.
I wouldn't want to overly complicate things, a simple ‘Never monetized’ would work for me.
Which would work for counterfeits as well as trials and patterns that were also never money.
It is planned to “hide” some fields based on type of the item in the near future. Procedurally, there is no solution now and I will close it.
An alternative (that might work better within the database underpinning the website) is to add a field “Money”. That will then trigger all the fields pertaining to circulation, etc. if yes and an alternative set (contemporary forgery, modern fake, etc.) if no.
Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.
A counterfeit coin, even a contemporary circulating counterfeit (CCC), cannot be demonetized because demonetization only applies to currency that was once legally issued and recognized as tender. When a government demonetizes a coin or note, it is formally withdrawing its legal status as money. Counterfeits, by definition, were never authorized by the issuing authority, so they never held legal tender status to begin with.
Instead, CCCs are treated as contraband in circulation: they can be confiscated, condemned, or destroyed when discovered. Their significance lies not in monetary law but in numismatic study. Collectors value them as artifacts that reveal economic pressures, minting technology, and social history. In this sense, CCCs gain collectible and educational value through rarity, provenance, and metallurgical interest, but they remain outside the legal framework of demonetization.
18 months down the line…can we hide the demonetisation field for counterfeit coins it is not an appropriate coin for a coin that was not legally monetised!
