Ecuador 2 decimos 1912-1915 Lima mint varieties

Dicussione circa Ecuador • 2 Décimos

Pubblicazioni di 7 • visto 106 volte

This question concerns the following coin:

 

https://en.numista.com/catalouge/pieces14526.html

 

But only the 1912-1915 Lima mint issues (KM# 51.3). 

 

Numista lists two types of 1914-LIMA-FG coins, but the descriptions for both entries are exactly the same. The SCWC indicates that there are two varieties for the 1914-LIMA-FG coin: one with a dot after “LIMA” and one without a dot after “LIMA”. Based upon the values listed for the two versions, the one with the dot appears to be less common than the one without the dot (at least in higher grades). Members apparently own examples of both of the types currently listed for this date on Numista, but it isn't clear which type is which, because the descriptions are the same and thus do not indicate which line is for the version with the dot after “LIMA” and which is for the version that does not have the dot.

 

Out of curiosity (and since I have the 1912 and 1915 Lima mint versions of this coin), I checked to see if either one of them had a dot after “LIMA”. My example of the 1912 date does not have the dot, but my 1915 example has the dot after “LIMA." Neither the SCWC or Numista indicate whether these dates have two varieties (with and without the dot like the 1914 date), or if all of the 1912 mintage lacks the dot and all of the 1915 mintage has the dot. It might be interesting to ask others who own these coins to check and report what they have.

 

Another curious thing I noticed about this coin series is that the SCWC indicates a small “R” should be present (for all three dates) below the arms but above the “LIMA” mintmark on the reverse of these coins. According to the SCWC, this “R” is the die engraver's initial at the Lima, Peru mint; it also appears on the reverse of the Peruvian 1 centavo coins from the early 20th century for KM# 211, which corresponds to this coin in the Numista catalog:

 

https://en.numista.com/catalouge/pieces28105.html ;

 

Anyway, Numista only mentions the presence of the “R” on the reverse of the Ecuador 2 decimos coins for the 1915-LIMA-FG date. I checked my 1912 and 1914 coins and the “R” is present on both of them. Thus, the Numista web page for this coin series should mention that the “R” is also present for those two dates. Interestingly, for the Peruvian 1 centavo KM# 211/Numista 28105 coins, some dates exist with and without the “R”, some dates lack the “R” and other dates exist only with the “R”. This situation is explained in the SCWC by saying that all dies for this coin series started out with an “R”, but after some amount of use, the “R” became very weak or filled, resulting in the coins without an “R”. It isn't clear to me if the same situation holds for the Ecuador 2 decimos coins (i.e., that some coins without an “R” might exist) because my 1912, 1914 and 1915 dated coins all have the “R”. The Numista entries for the 1912-LIMA-FG and 1914-LIMA-FG dates should also indicate that an “R” should be present (like the entry for the 1915-LIMA-FG date) so that collectors will know it is normal/correct for the “R” to be present for 1912 and 1914 dated coins as well as the 1915 dated coin. It would also be interesting to know if coins without the “R” exist for these dates. The webpage should also indicate (perhaps where the mint official's initials are explained) that the “R” is the die engraver's initial.

First of all, here are the proper links with the g and u swapped back, in case someone else wants to have a look at this:
N#14526

N#28105


The 4 or 5 1912 coins I looked at that I found online don't have a dot, so nothing new here. They all have the R below the arms as well, so that seems to be normal for 1912 coins as well.

 

For 1915 I found 2 examples online without a dot, it seems that LIMA without a dot is the most occuring variety.
https://www.numisor.ch/coins-auctions/online-auction-8/world-coins/695/ecuador-1915-fg-lima-ag-2-decimos/
https://solbery.com/catalog/c43317
That your 1915 coin has LIMA with a dot makes it an unlisted variety at present as I see it, you can request an extra date line by sharing pictures from your 1915 coin clearly showing the dot and mentioning the ‘1915 LIMA no dot’ links I shared in the documentation one has to write at the bottom for modifying a coin.

Also, you can add pictures of your coin in the general comments for the coin, writing with it ‘Coins of 1915 exist with and without a dot behind LIMA, it seems the most common variety is LIMA without a dot.’
As LIMA with dot appears on the obverse and the date on the reverse, optimally it would be nice to share a picture using a mirror, showing both sides in a single picture, with the dot clearly visible.

Besides coins I love geometry. The avatar consists of each of the 35 hexominoes used precisely once. With the 5 large yellow shapes placed like this, the solution for tiling the remaining 30 hexominoes is unique.

E. Timmermans

 

For 1915 I found 2 examples online without a dot, it seems that LIMA without a dot is the most occuring variety.
https://www.numisor.ch/coins-auctions/online-auction-8/world-coins/695/ecuador-1915-fg-lima-ag-2-decimos/

https://solbery.com/catalog/c43317

I'm sorry but the two 1915 coins in your links both have a dot too:

 

thoram2

 

 

The webpage should also indicate (perhaps where the mint official's initials are explained) that the “R” is the die engraver's initial.

Hello, 

Agreed. And just to complete the information: R is the initial of the peruvian engraver Juan Francisco Rodríguez.

 

Regards

Pecuniae imperare oportet, non servire

Essor Prof

E. Timmermans

 

For 1915 I found 2 examples online without a dot, it seems that LIMA without a dot is the most occuring variety.
https://www.numisor.ch/coins-auctions/online-auction-8/world-coins/695/ecuador-1915-fg-lima-ag-2-decimos/

https://solbery.com/catalog/c43317

I'm sorry but the two 1915 coins in your links both have a dot too:

 


The question is wether the things you point at are spots or dots. Comparing it to the obvious LIMA with dot on an 1893 coin on Ucoin, I experience those little things you point at as spots and not dots, as they appear to be too small to be intentional dots. Also they are further away from the A in LIMA than the dot on the 1893 coin on Ucoin: https://nl.ucoin.net/coin/ecuador-2-decimos-1893/?cid=78472

 

Hopefully thoram2 will share a picture from his 1915 coin for proper comparison, the dot on the Ucoin 1893 coin is much closer to LIMA than the spots or dots on the 1915 coin images I found.
 

Besides coins I love geometry. The avatar consists of each of the 35 hexominoes used precisely once. With the 5 large yellow shapes placed like this, the solution for tiling the remaining 30 hexominoes is unique.

E. Timmermans


The question is wether the things you point at are spots or dots. Comparing it to the obvious LIMA with dot on an 1893 coin on Ucoin, I experience those little things you point at as spots and not dots, as they appear to be too small to be intentional dots. Also they are further away from the A in LIMA than the dot on the 1893 coin on Ucoin: https://nl.ucoin.net/coin/ecuador-2-decimos-1893/?cid=78472

Of course these are dots and no spots. I've clearly pointed out where the dots are, so I don't understand why you put your red circle there, that's not why my arrow is:

 

The red arrow is the dot, the green arrow is a spot.

 

You can never compare coins with different dates, minor changes with other dates happen all the time.

 

And before you're questioning someone else, you have to do proper research yourself. These are all 1915's with a dot after LIMA, and much further than on the 1893:

 

© Stack & Bowers

 

© Heritage Auctions

 

© Stacks & Bowers

 

© Heritage Auctions

 

© Heidelberger Münzhandlung Herbert Grün

 

Or are you're going to say these are all spots too?

Essor Prof

E. Timmermans


The question is wether the things you point at are spots or dots. Comparing it to the obvious LIMA with dot on an 1893 coin on Ucoin, I experience those little things you point at as spots and not dots, as they appear to be too small to be intentional dots. Also they are further away from the A in LIMA than the dot on the 1893 coin on Ucoin: https://nl.ucoin.net/coin/ecuador-2-decimos-1893/?cid=78472

Of course these are dots and no spots. I've clearly pointed out where the dots are, so I don't understand why you put your red circle there, that's not why my arrow is:

 

The red arrow is the dot, the green arrow is a spot.

 

You can never compare coins with different dates, minor changes with other dates happen all the time.

 

And before you're questioning someone else, you have to do proper research yourself. These are all 1915's with a dot after LIMA, and much further than on the 1893:

 

© Stack & Bowers

 

© Heritage Auctions

 

© Stacks & Bowers

 

© Heritage Auctions

 

© Heidelberger Münzhandlung Herbert Grün

 

Or are you're going to say these are all spots too?

This time you convinced me. On the examples you found the dots are clear, smaller and further away from LIMA. The examples I found had insufficient resolution to be convincing.

Besides coins I love geometry. The avatar consists of each of the 35 hexominoes used precisely once. With the 5 large yellow shapes placed like this, the solution for tiling the remaining 30 hexominoes is unique.

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