Number of Issuers, is it right?

Hello friends, 

I am a issuer collector, and I know many that are too.

Currently Numista says there are 10.026 issuers in the catalog

Some time ago the number was half that, I am a bit skeptical how that number got doubled.

I am aware there are lots of now medals mixed with coins, but that would not increase that number so much, also I know there are many notgeld but, holy moses, 10k!.

Question is, is this number real?

Maybe the banknotes are making that number doubled?

It is possible to filter only issuers of coins (except tokens and medals “exonumia”)?

Any comment will be great

Geison

I would assume this is related to the new(ish) ‘Pretended issuers’.

So an item from spain and an a fantasy item pretending to be from spain would be double the issuers?

Issuer Spain / Pretended issuer Spain

When you sort the issuer list alphabetically there are 10007 links. The vast majority will be from sub-sub-sub categories of the emergency issues. Alone Germany at the end of WW1 had between 2000-2500 cities and around 55.000 municipalities. Even if only a fraction of them issued something you will have a gargantuan amount of issuers. In addition there are also Spain, Italy etc.

Edit: maybe they are less then I expected (209 districts, 300 communes, 219 towns, 2861 municipalities, 1941 cities).

Maybe quite a few ancient entities were also added.

Idolenz

When you sort the issuer list alphabetically there are 10007 links. The vast majority will be from sub-sub-sub categories of the emergency issues. Alone Germany at the end of WW1 had between 2000-2500 cities and around 55.000 municipalities. Even if only a fraction of them issued something you will have a gargantuan amount of issuers. In addition there are also Spain, Italy etc.

 

Edit: maybe they are less then I expected (209 districts, 300 communes, 219 towns, 2861 municipalities, 1941 cities).

Maybe quite a few ancient entities were also added.

All those links have coins added?

No it's just the issuer list, you can't filter for content. But coins probably have a few thousand less.

Then there are not 10.000 coins of different issuers on the Numista catalog, I think maybe the message on the top of the issuer page is misleading.

With the reorganization of the site into a single catalog you can no longer separate into issuers for coins, banknotes and exomunia as you once could.  Thanks to the Wayback Machine site I put together this graph of issuers per date:

Limiting it to coins only for the available date (up to Nov 2024) and extrapolated to today gives 5,500 coin issuers:

Edit: corrected graph showing total issuers just before the 3 catalogs were combined into one and the issuers consolidated.

Geison

Then there are not 10.000 coins of different issuers on the Numista catalog, I think maybe the message on the top of the issuer page is misleading.

Where did you get the impression from that it is just about coins? The stand-alone word ‘coin’ doesn't appear on the issuer site (there are just two issuers with the word coinage in the name).

So it is not 10.000 issuers, are around 5.000 since the issuers of banknotes are somewhat same as issuers of coins

Geison

So it is not 10.000 issuers, are around 5.000 since the issuers of banknotes are somewhat same as issuers of coins

~ 5,500 as I show above.

So it is wrong and need to be fixed.

Geison

So it is wrong and need to be fixed.

It's not wrong, just presented differently. It no longer represents only Coin issuers but issuers of coins, banknotes and exonumia.  You were used to seeing this:

Issuers for coins only. 

Now (as of 12/2024) you see this:

Total issuers for coins and banknotes and exonumia.

If you want to see only the issuers for coins (which now includes Standard circulation coins, Collector coins, Local coins, Contemporary counterfeits, etc.) you'll have to submit an idea to improve Numista to separate issuers for the object types you want.   

Thank you for your response

If I understood correctly

There are a Brazil issuer for banknotes

and

There are a Brazil issuer for coins

Then 2 issuers.

(or 3 if there are one issuer for exonumia)

But of course they are the same issuer

So I guess the message saying there are 10k issuers are misleading

Getting closer. There used to be 2 Brazil issuers, one for coins and one for banknotes (and as you say, maybe another for exonumia) before the catalog reorganization (see the 11,334 issuers on the graph above) but when the three catalogs were combined in one and the number of issuers went from 11,334 to 9,816 I assume duplicates were removed.

So today, there are 10,026 issuers, some with coin objects only, some with banknotes objects only, some with exonumia objects only, some with 2 or 3 objects. You currently cannot say how many issuers issued coins.  

I would expect much more duplicates since most of the banknotes and exonumia are, I think, the same of issuers of coins.

Geison

I would expect much more duplicates since most of the banknotes and exonumia are, I think, the same of issuers of coins.

You may be exactly right. I really don't know with the information I have access to. It will take somebody on the inside to check.

This would be a nice addition to have:

rsirian1

Geison

I would expect much more duplicates since most of the banknotes and exonumia are, I think, the same of issuers of coins.

You may be exactly right. I really don't know with the information I have access to. It will take somebody on the inside to check.

 

This would be a nice addition to have:

 

Totally agree with you.

This would fix the problem of lots of issuers that you click and nothing happens if there a filter unchecked for banknotes and exonumia

Geison

Thank you for your response

 

If I understood correctly

There are a Brazil issuer for banknotes

and

There are a Brazil issuer for coins

Then 2 issuers.

(or 3 if there are one issuer for exonumia)

 

But of course they are the same issuer

So I guess the message saying there are 10k issuers are misleading

That's not correct. The count of 10k+ issuers includes only one “Brazil”.

If you sort the list of issuers alphabetically, you can see the full, expanded list of issuers, without the sections, so you can really count 10k+ links and you'll see that Brazil is not duplicated.

inc7007

I would assume this is related to the new(ish) ‘Pretended issuers’.

 

So an item from spain and an a fantasy item pretending to be from spain would be double the issuers?

Issuer Spain / Pretended issuer Spain

That's not correct either, except for 14 issuers, for which a distinct issuer was created when modern fantasy coins reuse the name of a past country. They all have “(fantasy)” in their name, for example Indochina (fantasy).