Change to values/subdivisions of Austrian Netherlands currency

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Questo messaggio ha lo scopo di: richiedere la creazione o la modifica di una valuta o di una denominazione (taglio) nel catalogo

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The values presented for the Austrian Netherlands – for short, A.N. – Florin currently state:
4 Liards = 1 Sol, 7 Sols = 1 Ecalin, 20 Sols = 1 Florin, 63 Sols = 1 Couronne (Kronenthaler), 70 Sols = 1 Ducaton

 

Something felt off to me about those values, particularly because, according to the value mentioned above, the Kronenthaler was worth significantly more than the neighbouring Netherlands Rijksdaalder. 

 

Compare 63 stuivers/sols (Kronenthaler) versus 2.5 Gulden (= 50 stuivers/sols; Rijksdaalder), despite only a gram of difference in silver contents when comparing coins struck during years.

 

A.N. Kronenthaler, 1755-89: Silver (.873) • 29.44 g

 

Netherlands Rijksdaalder, 1734-85: Silver (.873) - 28.25 g

 

After a quick search on the forum, I found this post, which talked about adding the values Numista is showing at the time of posting.

https://en.numista.com/forum/topic132863.html

 

tdziemia mentioned being unable to open the link presented by the original poster. I had the same issue, so I decided to see if I could find another source to confirm. 

 

I came across the book Coins of the world, 1750-1850 (Craig, William D) – link and screenshot at the bottom of this post. Page 351 of this book gives very different numbers from the ones displayed on Numista currently:

4 liards = 1 sol (patard), 14 liards = 1 plaquette, 6 sols = 1 escalin; 20 sols = 1 florin, 54 sols = 1 Kronenthaler; 60 sols = 1 ducaton; 7 florins, 13 sols = 1 Sovereign (souverain) d'or.

 

These values seem more likely to me, in part because the Kronenthaler is a lot closer in value to the Rijksdaalder.

 

In a similar vein, compare the Netherlands Schelling (4.95*0.583=~2.89 gr silver; 6 stuivers) to the A.N. Escalin (5*0.535=~2.68 gr silver; 7 stuivers/sol).

 

Netherlands Schelling, 1750-93 & A.N. Escalin, 1749-68.

 

With the above, 1 Netherlands stuiver = ~0.48 gr silver. 

If we assume Numista's current 7 stuivers/sol per Escalin, 1 A.N. stuiver/sol = 0.38 gr. silver. 

If we assume Craig's 6 stuivers/sols per Escalin, 1 A.N. stuiver/sol = ~0.45 gr of silver.

 

My request/question is:

Might it be better to change the value(s) of the A.N. Florin to the ones mentioned in Coins of the world, 1750-1850 (Craig, William D), given the added information/context above?

 

Naturally, please do correct me, if I have misunderstood something.
 

(My apologies for the lengthy post. Edited to correct typos.)

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Link to book hosted with online archive host. I have set the search to ‘Austrian Netherlands’.  

In case the link breaks at any point, a screenshot of page 351 below:

This link will hopefuly reach the article in question.

As discussed in the original post, there were two distinct “moneys”, the argent courant and the argent de change. The couronne was equal to 63 sols in the former and 54 sols in the latter, with the escalin equal to 7 sols in the former and 6 sols in the latter. We rightly use argent courant since this is what the coins were denominated in (when the denomination is actually shown). For example, the odd denomination of 14 liards makes sense if it's worth half an escalin. There's no reason to think that the Dutch stuiver and Austrian Netherlands' sol were equivalent.

Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.

First and foremost, I appreciate that you managed to find the article and related info. The link seems to work, and page 76 offers a clear overview for some of the denominations.

 

I'll also take your point that the 14 Liards would be odd, if it wasn't half of an escalin (or ¼ of a 2 Escalin coin). The source you provided also mentions the imperial decree of 1810 on page 77, which saw the value of the escalin reduced to 6 sol 7 deniers 380/1000 denier, which would be non-sensical if the escalin was equal to 6 sols in 20 years earlier – unless Napoléon's conquests had caused significant inflation, but that'd be speculation on my part.

 

There would be a minor counter argument that 6 sols per escalin would make 10 escalins equal to the Belgian Revolution's 3 Florin coin, but (I would concede that) the argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny, when considering that the denomination of 3 Florin didn't exist during Austrian rule.

 

The main reason that I drew significant comparison between the A.N. sol/stuiver to Dutch stuiver, is due to the similarity in silver content of larger denominations of either currency. The thought was that both units were thus (highly) comparable, given that coins were usually worth the precious metals they were made off back then.

 

Regardless, I do sincerely appreciate the clarification. ^^

 

That said, I'm genuinely curious about something:

Is there a good way of distinguishing between coins belonging to argent courant and argent de change?

 

(Or am I misunderstanding how both ‘moneys’ worked together?)

According to the article, the change was made permanent in 1704, 10 years before the Austrian Netherlands came into being. The earlier coinage appears to all be listed as if the change had not occurred. For example, this coin should be values at 7 sols (0.35 florin) but is instead valued at 0.3 florin. 

Former Numista referee for banknotes from Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Saint Helena.

Then I read over that in the article, my mistake and thank you for clarifying.

 

The complexities of the currency from both the Spanish Netherlands and Austrian Netherlands still certainly confuse me at times. 😅

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