I notice that Russia and the USSR are listed as seperate countries. I agree with that. I wonder if maybe Numista should consider doing the same thing with the Philippine listings...they were a Spanish colonial posession, a U.S. Posession, and then an independent republic...actually there is probably a lot more countries if Numista had a consistant policy towards when the government of a geographical area deserves its own consideration...maybe there is ?
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The Soviet Union included the socialist republics, this was a decision made many years ago. Why some countries like Ceylon and Sri Lanka, for example, are listed separately is beyond my understanding, but countries that change government without geographical change seem to be listed as one country.
Kenny
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Im still not sure...a colonial monarchy and an indepentant republic are one country in numista...I agree with the Russia vs Soviet listings...but if they are going to keep all Philippine as one listing then why isnt the Danish east Indies not listed as part of the US listings or Denmark for that matter? I think it would be interesting to know the logic...I read many posts here and it seems that a lot of folks like krause as a standard when it suits them. Do not most other catalogs treat the listings of countries as different if they have guiding documental and status differences? I mean...numista does not list pre and post Singaporean membership in Malaysia as a reason for two Malaysian listings...territory sizes changed for Malaysia...im just thinking out loud is all...
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Cita: "Oklahoman"Im still not sure...a colonial monarchy and an indepentant republic are one country in numista...I agree with the Russia vs Soviet listings...but if they are going to keep all Philippine as one listing then why isnt the Danish east Indies not listed as part of the US listings or Denmark for that matter? I think it would be interesting to know the logic...I read many posts here and it seems that a lot of folks like krause as a standard when it suits them. Do not most other catalogs treat the listings of countries as different if they have guiding documental and status differences? I mean...numista does not list pre and post Singaporean membership in Malaysia as a reason for two Malaysian listings...territory sizes changed for Malaysia...im just thinking out loud is all...
You are right. There have been a lot of debates about this. At this point quite frankly I don't care if they choose one way or another, but I would like them to be consistent about it.
Parts of Europe (outside of Spain), and parts of the US were also part of a single government. Something similar to that is the case of the French and English empires, not to mention the Dutch as well. It is clear that there has been a change in government as well as territory to back up Oklahoman's statement about the Philippines. This is not very different from the Soviet Union dissolving, as did the Spanish Empire, there is also a reduction in territory that has been divided into its constituent countries, in both cases, so what is the difference?
you're welcome, but don't do it like with Russia!!!! I mean USSR has disappeared and Sovjet Union (USSR) has been introduced, why not Russia (USSR)? It's making life more complicated in my humble opinion
Look at India, that's the logical way to set it up, luckily I don't have to search for Republic of India!
I think USSR should be absolutely separate country in the list and not under Russia. It used to be a country - Soviet Union (USSR) in which Russia was a part of it, same as other 14 "equal" countries. Putting it under Russia proves that other 14 countries were invaded and occupied by Russia (which is sort of the case) for more than 70 years.
For some reason you've listed Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia as a separate countries and not under Croatia or Serbia and Czech Republic or Slovakia respectively. I don't see any difference between USSR and ČSSR or SFRY.
I was born in USSR, but have nothing to do with Russia and don't really want to see now non-existent country of my birth under Russia.
Gordon Gekko: Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market.
Cita: "Donkey"I think USSR should be absolutely separate country in the list and not under Russia. It used to be a country - Soviet Union (USSR) in which Russia was a part of it, same as other 14 "equal" countries. Putting it under Russia proves that other 14 countries were invaded and occupied by Russia (which is sort of the case) for more than 70 years.
For some reason you've listed Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia as a separate countries and not under Croatia or Serbia and Czech Republic or Slovakia respectively. I don't see any difference between USSR and ČSSR or SFRY.
I was born in USSR, but have nothing to do with Russia and don't really want to see now non-existent country of my birth under Russia.
Hmm, we made exception to USSR, while we let apart past countries that evolved into several current countries, e.g. Czechoslovakia, Rhodesia and Nyassaland. Reason for this was some continuity between those two. We haven't thought about it more thoroughly, as we had to check whole list and it can be fixed anytime.
Cita: "Jarcek"Reason for this was some continuity between those two.
Hi Jarek. By "some continuity" do you refer to the same invasive behavior? 1919 - Poland, 1939 - Finland, Poland, 1956 - Hungary, 1968 - Czechoslovakia, 1979 - Afghanistan, 2008 - Georgia, 2014 - Ukraine.
From the numismatic point of view USSR is no different from Czechoslovakia or Yugoslavia. All three countries were artificially created and united, and later on seized to exist at some point in time.
Gordon Gekko: Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market.
I instinctively want to agree with Sjoelund and let Krause do the heavy lifting. That's what I'd do, but I get the idea that we're not Krause, we're Numista. So I have a lot of confidence in the new Numista Team to get things right and recognise that it's a coin catalog, not an academic exercise in the political evolution of varying countries. Ease of use and accessibility trump correctness for the sake of being correct.
I would however make one heartfelt plea - whatever guides your decision making, please, PLEASE, don't take into account the demands of those 300 club fellers. That's simply bad numismatics. It's a charming and harmless way to encourage collectors but it should have zero impact on how the catalog is arranged.
If I was King of the Forum, I'd perma ban the next person to complain that some changes to the country list have cost him a country!
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Cita: "pnightingale"I would however make one heartfelt plea - whatever guides your decision making, please, PLEASE, don't take into account the demands of those 300 club fellers.
Totally agree! I was always confused by number of countries when it comes to numismatics. Someone decided to make separate countries out of colonies and colonial territories (French West Africa or German East Africa for example). Even Armenia and Cilician Armenia are listed as a separate countries...
So, if you've noticed, my question was why different listing rules were applied to three countries (Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia) which were dissolved under pretty much the same circumstances, for the same reason and around the same time.
Jarec's reply that USSR's listing under Russia was due to "political continuity" is kind of make sense. Who knows? May be because of this "political continuity" more countries will fall in that sub-section and the whole countries list will get shorter.
Gordon Gekko: Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market.
Guiness Book of Record, decide to stop recording the Collector with more countries cause no one manage to agree on the definition of a country, someone could say that every German State was a Different Country with their own currency
Sorry no Swaps. Paraguay Post Office is to risky and they don't allow to send coins nor notes
Exactly. No-one manages to agree. That is why this will be admin decision and why 300 club has no influence whatever.
However, I am pushing for much more informative and complex catalogue. That would mean more countries (not just for count), but, I would like it to be more easily searchable. System for that is theoretically done, only to be brought to light by Xavier.
As far as the USSR is concerned, I personally count the RSFSR coins as a different country. Similarly for Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes versus Yugoslavia.
I also don't get why British Guiana is the same country as Guyana, and why Portuguese Guinea is the same country as Guinea-Bissau (and, while we're at it, why Oman and Muscat is the same country as Oman), but that's another question entirely.
A new one, a new collector, should come here and find their coin without having to have any degree in history or geography. I look forward to the admin decisions...
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Cita: "Oklahoman"A new one, a new collector, should come here and find their coin without having to have any degree in history or geography. I look forward to the admin decisions...
That's usually what the search function is for. (Good luck guessing the country and denomination of, say, the 1977 crown if you didn't know already.)
That said, for searching purposes, I really liked the old alphabetical order. In the new system, to find French Afars and Issas, you have to either know where exactly they are (Djibouti, for the record), or use text search, and with South Arabia even text search won't help (as one new collector already found out a few days ago).
With all due respect that is what a table of contents, or in the case of Numista, a country list should be used for. Why have a country list and then expect a noob to come and use a search function? Well...maybe they can use a search function when they cant find their country on the country list...
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
