It is well known that the Numista catalog consists of two parts.
One part is for general usage and everyone can browse it and use inner search to find an article.
Another part is hidden and one can never get there until the exact address of the article is written in the address line of a browser.
For example
The Great Britain farthing 1694 struck by William and Mary is absent in the list of the country. One can not see it from the page of Country and territory list https://en.numista.com/catalogue/royaume-uni-1.html
No results one gets, using the Search for a coin https://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php
with the words "Great Britain 1694". One may add the standard reference number of the coin KM#466, which was obtained reading the resources outside the Numista site and there will be no results obviously. This coin is in the hidden part. It is easy to get it just typing:
You are right. One should guess that some coins that described in catalogs of the Great Britain everywhere in the world are hidden at Numista. When one browse the Great Britain coins: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/royaume-uni-1.html
it is easy to see a reminder about other places to look at. The complete list is given in the following form:
See also: [...]
Such reminders are everywhere in the catalog. But of course there is no reference to the hidden part neither in coins, as it is demonstrated for the Great Britain [England is absent in this list, that is why it is hidden], no in tokens.
The existence of the hidden part was proved at the very first post. It is not a question to discuss. The question is how to achieve the right article, and in case you have not find it, still be sure that the item was not described at the Numista catalog at some other (hidden as well) places yet, and one in this and only this case got permission to contribute a new article. Otherwise we get duplications. For the case about farthing 1694 now anyone can contribute in the Great Britain coins his/her farthing 1694 with the reference KM#466.2 (this coin in the SCWC is described as the Great Britain!). The moment, when we get the validation, a duplication is born! An example of duplication is already present: just check the first result in the search outside the Numista site example, given in the first post: it describes the same item as in the second result. The duplications, especially in the hidden part are not the best idea for swap purposes: collectors oblige to put their items in every of these articles and they do.
I do not really see the point. That farthing has nothing to do with Great Britain, it is not in the GB catalogue and nowhere on the list is GB stated. Under such conditions, there is no mystery that looking for "great britain ...." will not find it.
There probably should be "See Also" links to England and Scotland under United Kingdom, but otherwise Numista has it right and Krause has it wrong - there was no Great Britain or United Kingdom prior to the Acts of Union in 1707.
Cita: "jbreynolds"There probably should be "See Also" links to England and Scotland under United Kingdom, but otherwise Numista has it right and Krause has it wrong - there was no Great Britain or United Kingdom prior to the Acts of Union in 1707.
Yes, I agree that those links should be added. I don't believe Mark or I can do it as referees but we will submit a request to the catalogue admin.
Just because you can't see it ... doesn't mean it isn't there - Anon.
Anyway in the "Guide book and the catalog of British Commonwealth coins 1649-1971" by J.Remick and others Ireland is included. By the way, this book is just one of many examples that obviously includes coinage of England in the Great Britain coins (p.188 foll).
In fact in some places such as articles, there are many unnecessary cross links, that is why this adding would not look 'more then necessary'.
Let's take an example of the German coins. Does not matter which territory and when, it is always German in Numista cataolg. Though formally the country exists just less then 200 years.
Still there is the large problem with the hidden tokens. There are many articles (I have not dig it much, but I believe many Canadian 1-2 dollars should be there as well) that present in the catalog, so many people made their excellent work, with references, images etc. but these articles are absent in the list of tokens as well as not connected to the search tool.
Obviously it is hard to work with the hidden part, constantly conducting search from outside of the site. When the article is not found still the doubt is left, that it is hidden somewhere, that is why the search should be done in another way and there is no neediness to make a new contribution.
Some articles have the lettering only, others have the descriptions only, some don't mention the size, mass etc. some have just images. And there could be wrong attribution and just spelling mistakes. When one gets to the article, everything becomes clear, but during the search it is difficult to guess what is present in the article.
It could be just a technical question that reveals a bug in the Numista web-design. Or it is just a reflection of Numista policy or preparation work. The deal with the hidden part, mostly with the tokens is conducted very long, about a year, that is why it does not seem like a preparation or a bug.
There are 71650 coins on Numista. And blank Advanced Search finds 71650 coins. They are not very well hidden. I believe that a problem you are pointing at is that some tokens are not set as a tokens and they do not show up correctly. Every coin that is here can be searched from within. You just have to search correctly.
These figures are good. Though not just one but at least 16 examples are given in the first post that proved that the hidden part exists. Let us discuss the essence on the problem (it is not a problem, if it is the Numista Policy, of course).
You choose some weird battles to fight, man. As far as I can see, the first post gave two examples of coins/medals you thought were in a "hidden" part of the catalogue, but both show up as the result of a simple search.
Which 16 examples were given to "prove" the existence of a hidden catalogue - i.e. only available to view if you know the exact URL, and not showing up in any search?
From my experience, most problems with computers have one thing similar. Problem is not in the computer, but rather somewhere between computer keyboard and chair. Not meant to be rude, but I think you just made a mistake in searching.
Excellent work! We got good result for escaped coins in question.
As for the other revealed hidden part, the last few posts looked strange, for they differ a bit from reality. Most probably it worth to verify. Here is the result:
Your searches for "War medal 1939-1945" do not include the Tokens section in the drop down menu, hence you are not finding any "War medal 1939-1945" because they are in the token section...Again, not hidden just a failure in setting search parameters.
They're not "hidden" you're just searching incorrectly. I managed to find your war token no problem, and the William and Mary is obviously England rather than Great Britain, because Great Britain wasn't formed until 1707
Cita: "cyprusalexander"there is result with 16 items! None of them refers to the hidden part of course.
Of course. Because there is no hidden part in the catalog. As already told by several others too. But you keep going on about that "hidden part" (just like you kept going on about the "fake" coins in the catalog).
Just learn how to use the search engine correctly and you'll find every coin in the catalog.
Cita: "cyprusalexander"It is well known that the Numista catalog consists of two parts.
One part is for general usage and everyone can browse it and use inner search to find an article.
Another part is hidden and one can never get there until the exact address of the article is written in the address line of a browser.
And where is this so called "well known" hidden part? I still haven't found it. I guess there just isn't one.
Fact is: there is actually a hidden part, just like he described it, but funnily he doesn't even know it, he hasn't put any correct examples of a hidden coin sheet.
When I stumbled on this discussion, I thought, yes, he is right, there's a hidden part. But then he didn't link to it. So he doesn't know the hidden part, though he correctly knows that there is one.
In the past those where truly hidden from everyone but you and the referee/catalog admin but now they pop up often in the Latest coins list like this australian copy of a british coin page.
I don't know if it's the comprehension of the english language (not that it's bad just for minute things) that leads to these long drawn out arguments about trifles but I thought that malta was under the rule of the UK long enough to establish it as a working language.
As a referee I confirm that this is not hidden but only needing a validation from a referee/admin. The page exists but is not published as part of the catalog as not checked. You wouldn't imagine how much messy would have become the catalog if not...
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
It seems that due to this discussion we proved one more result:
it is possible to find tokens from the token section without ticking the 'tokens' in the "Coin type:" menu and as the result get hidden items (sorry to repeat, but it is exactly what it means: hidden part). The result is something like 600-700 pieces instead of a few thousands (but 1 less even is enough). It means that just some thousands items are hidden. And this has nothing to do with the problems between the keyboard and any chair obviously. It is very good that as in case of substitution of coins by fakes the community is ready to apply forces to get rid not only of the fakes (as it is emphasized at this discussion a few times) but of hidden from the inner search items.
One of solution. Maybe it is worth to hide all tokens with such settings in the search? In this case most probably it could be considered as a recommendation from the community to the stuff.
In other words the recommendation:
if the "tokens" are not ticked in "Coin type:" menu
there should be 0 result for items from "token" section.
Just one more side result of the discussion. The search "War medal 1939-1945" brought to two articles.
One describes a real token.
Description of the other one not much differs from a medal (see, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Medal_1939%E2%80%931945#Description). In which way it is possible to distinguish this token from medal? Or should military decorations be classified as tokens (to delete)?
Geez this guy is like a dog with a bone, when he gets hold of an idea he just grabs hold of it and growls at anyone that tries to get it off him.
THERE IS NO HIDDEN PART OF THE CATALOGUE
Searching the tokens section with tokens unticked brings up entries because some people have filled in the coin information incorrectly and left the tokens field as "unknown" rather than changing it to "yes"
Searching the tokens section with "all" ticked in the search field brings up everything in that section of the catalogue.
Medals shouldn't be in this catalogue at all, because they are classified as military history, not numismatic material, except for the shooting thaler medals that actually had a face value. The person who entered in the medal obviously entered it as a token because there was nothing else to enter it as.
My point stands, there IS a problem between chair and computer.
I actually "tokenized" some of those unknown tokens, but some of them are rather medals and so on, and I would not really consider them as a tokens, so I did not requested a change in all of them.
It is not hidden, As I pointed out last time you posted the link, those are just tokens where the the token field has been entered as "unknown" rather than "yes" when entering the coin information. So it shows up even though "tokens" is not selected in the search field
WHY DON'T YOU GET IT? Are you really that stupid, or just pig headed.
It is less than a week I last wrote here. Since that time I managed to request modification on over than 1000 different coin sheets and get them all verified.
If you are so mad about 600 token that are not labeled as such (and not in any case hidden), just go and request those modifications. You can do it yourself.
I agree with Jarcek. You can't imagine how much modifications you can make in a row. Jarcek is a perfect example of guys able to make lots of requests to validate
Administrateur du catalogue, référent de nombreuses nations antiques et de la Lorraine.
Catalogue administrator, numerous Antique nations and Lorraine referee.
it's the beginning of a new Star Wars trilogy, ahummmm, named
"The hidden treasures of Numista"
Part 1 "The missing Tokens"
Part 2 "On the trace of the Tokens"
Part 3 "The triumph of the Numista Empire"
Some years ago I endured the displeasure of working on a help desk specific to Microsoft's CRM. At the end of every issue you had a disposition screen where the type of call was coded and the resolution(s) recorded. One of the codes was unfamiliar - PICNIC. What's this? I asked and was told "Problem In Chair, Not In computer."
Among the other options was a (rarely used) canned response triggered by an icon for a nuclear mushroom cloud. It closed the case without further action or resolution and sent an automated message which read "We're busy playing Warcraft, **** off and quit bothering us."
Perhaps Dear Leader could introduce such features into the referee's toolbox.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
I wonder what will be his next coup... 
