Lettering in Korean coins

We have an issue with a Korean country.

Let's have a look.
Numista catalog demands that the lettering should be written precisely in the article about the coin.

It is a must and it is the LAW for a referee. The coin
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces6101.html
has the lettering section. This section hides two lines of text on the obverse. It gives till now

조선 민주주의 인민 공화국
1974

describing the semicircle legend at the top and the date. It does not describe the ribbon. That is there should be
조선 민주주의 인민 공화국
조선 민주주의
인민 공화국
1974

At the beginning it was believed to be just a mistake, due to maybe lack of attention or a lot of laziness of a referee.

Instead of that we have a very strange refuse of the modification request.


This is not the only rejection. Another was conducted by the same referee in the same strange and rebelling style. These multiply rejections can be explained, most probably, that it is done intentionality by the referee, and the spoilage has nothing to do with any mistake. An answer of the referee in personal messages together with humiliating phrases was "Sorry if it annoys you."

Can a Numista developer make correspondent corrections directly without permitting this referee to interferer in the restoration process of this very coin? Unfortunately, these issues reveal that the other similar articles, in this country and other countries, which the referee most probably damaged too, should be checked to be sure that the referee had not harm them so much.

At least there are a few indications that spoilage of this style is present in about a few hundreds of articles.

Even the miniature lettering from ribbons should be included in the lettering field. You are right on this case.

Translation field can be done by "(2×) TEXT" .

Really Jarcek? The lettering of the legend should definitely be listed. But the identical miniature writing of the country emblem needs listed as well? That makes for a clunky unhelpful listing. Would it be better to list the writing once and then perhaps mention that the same damn writing appears in miniature?

As a native speaker, perhaps I am wrong, but doesn't all lettering on a coin refer to dates and legends? So wouldn't all lettering that appears within a design be described within a field for design? Aaand how do we deal with a countries emblem which says exactly the same thing as the legend?

I will be happy to make these listings overly wordy and repetative. Or, with some guidance from Jarcek, write it in such a way that we can save the public from a flood of korean. Perhaps a (x2) after the written out korean?

Jarcek...He is clearly baiting me for his unhappiness about other countries I am ref for. He also is hoping to officially go around me. He accusses me of damage for nothing more than me disagreeing with how he chooses to format. I also seem to be the only focus of his harrassment. He has harrassed me about Isle of Man, and now North Korea, im sure Liberia is next. But Jarcek, you should know, that every point of harrassment from this person is about a point or a listing that I had no control over the creation of. I have not gone in and radically changed listings in any of my countries of responsibility. When a could change is in order, I solicite your view point with letters, other refs with posts asking feedback on the forum, and then Numista users as well in the forum. Sometimes it is with successn like the first, second, third portrait of the Queen...sometimes it is not successful, like Irish versus English names. But I have never tried to screw up listings. As a ref, i have been extremely timely at approving requests. You should be able to tell that they get approved within days. And when I dont approve, I ask for editing. I honestly think that rewriting the countries legal name in North Korean twice would confuse the users here who do not speak or read korean. I have done nothing to change existing listings of North Korea, nor have I created and damaged listings.Any over arching changes will be as I systematically review listings, and then it will be afyer questions and feedback.This wont happen until I am done with the Manx listings, or the wrecked Liberian listings. I certianly hope for advice from speakers and readers of Korean as the time of improvements approach. This member talks about law. He tells me something. I respond. Then instead of a courtesy follow up and a chance to respond, he goes to a public forum to whinge, complain, demands work arounds, insults, and speaks untruth about a dedicated volunteer. I have asked and asked for relief from this person. Please do something!

Mention of that writing in obverse description would do the trick. Usually, there is something different on coat of arms and in the lettering. But North Korea needs to be extra I guess.

Thank you. Should I have the misfortune to have to communicate with Cyprusalexander again it will be to refer him to mail so that I can track his behavior. (2x) text seems a fair work around.

Duplicate post.

Hello.
Sorry, I can not remain silent. I will say my point of view, I'm sorry if I hurt someone. This attitude of cyprusalexander to the referee spoils all the desire to do this. Cyprusalexander catches the referee on some word, and puts the screen on the forum - it's humiliating. I would not want to be in such a situation, I do not want to see any of my colleagues in this situation. This is not a dialogue, it's a dirty game. Jarcek, I ask you to add in the new rules precise instructions for the translation of the inscriptions. Specially for cyprusalexander. I am sure that having this "law" many referees will be protected (and me).
Thank you.

Cita: "Cyrillius"​Hello.
​Sorry, I can not remain silent. I will say my point of view, I'm sorry if I hurt someone. This attitude of cyprusalexander to the referee spoils all the desire to do this. Cyprusalexander catches the referee on some word, and puts the screen on the forum - it's humiliating. I would not want to be in such a situation, I do not want to see any of my colleagues in this situation. This is not a dialogue, it's a dirty game. Jarcek, I ask you to add in the new rules precise instructions for the translation of the inscriptions. Specially for cyprusalexander. I am sure that having this "law" many referees will be protected (and me).
​Thank you.

​I will continue the work on referee FAQ. You are right, this is humiliating, and should not happen. One thing is to notice a mistake, other is humiliation.

Personally I never include writings inside the coat of arms in the letter box. I just keep to the legend in the obverse/reverse lettering.

It seems that the referee in question still ignores his volunteer obligations.

There is the Numista law, which comes from the vision of Xavier and the direct instruction to the referee:

Posted: 1-Jul-2017, 03:03PM

Even the miniature lettering from ribbons should be included in the lettering field. You are right on this case.

Translation field can be done by "(2×) TEXT" .

The referee had not use these 2 months effectively and no changes conducted.

Most probably we oblige to consider this issue as not the personal problem with anyone of the referee, but the position of this referee. That is why we must return to the first question:

Can a Numista developer make correspondent corrections directly without permitting this referee to interferer in the restoration process of this very coin?

...

I hate how slow it seems for changes to be made. There is nothing keeping Cyprus from submitting changes to the listings that offend him. Since that same July date Cyprus has submitted no change forms to any North Korean listings.

I have not noticed that other refs are being as babysat as I am. But here is what is happening: I have completed a rough cleanup in the Manx 1/2 pence through 20 pence listings...still ongoing. Then the Liberian listings need work. I am waiting on replys from Liberian officials to move forward there. I have also been keeping up with requested changes...i have worked through about 50 of approx. 200 coin listings in my areas of responsibilities re the list of coins i need to check for various statuses as determined by Numista. I am not complaining of the work. I love it. And wish I was independently wealthy. But all of things tale huge amounts of time. These are extremely active countries...dozens of new listings...hundreds of existing listings that need cleaned up, coordinated, and managed. It won't be done overnight. And I am sorry it isnt to his schedule or timing. I am trying, in spite of his nastiness and bad ideas, to keep my responsibilities handled, and to have listings that are well thought out and useful. I coordinate my volunteering of these listings with my volunteer work with the coins and banknotes of some Krause titles as well. I love it all. On top of this I teach 4th grade. I would love to do more...if Numista is unhappy just let me know. Even when I am not on the website my research benefits it... please be helpful CyprusAlexander, or please go away.

This is solved already. No need for change.

As everyone can see the article in question still misleads the reader:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces6101.html

Its description contradicts the rules of Numista catalog.

The attention of the referee was pointed to this rude mistake by
1) the modification request 1900587
2) opening of this topic https://en.numista.com/forum/topic60900.html

The demand to correct the article was directly given to the referee in this topic:
Posted: 1-Jul-2017, 03:03PM
Even the miniature lettering from ribbons should be included in the lettering field. You are right on this case.


Question. How the fake text can be substituted by real description in the article?

If the referee in question had not find time since the 1 of July to follow his direct voluntary obligations who must do that?

(2×) has been added. Sorry it took so long. A shame you couldn't have typed (2x) and submitted the change. Every other North Korean page is on my list to be corrected. Or as someone submits the change, (2×), then the change can be approved sooner.

It's so much easier to complain than to be helpful, polite and constructive.....

I don't need to mention the two members going on my nerves nearly all the time, do I?

Ole

I just have to shake my head. Grown folks should act grown.

New guidelines elimitate need for typing x times same words... they are nearly done.

Cita: "ngdawa"​Personally I never include writings inside the coat of arms in the letter box. I just keep to the legend in the obverse/reverse lettering.

​I second you in this!
The lettering in a design, such as a coat of arms I consider to be only part of the design, and not relevant for the coin page. Nor have I ever included motto lettering in my edits.

Cita: "CassTaylor"​

Cita: "ngdawa"​Personally I never include writings inside the coat of arms in the letter box. I just keep to the legend in the obverse/reverse lettering.

​​I second you in this!
​The lettering in a design, such as a coat of arms I consider to be only part of the design, and not relevant for the coin page. Nor have I ever included motto lettering in my edits.

​True!
I'm even sceptical to include the mint letter. Feels weird with a huge "ATS" or "MMD" in the lettering box, but in reality you can barely see it on the coin. Maybe the mint letters should have its own little box?

Ngdawa I really like your thinking. MINT letters and designer initials just junk up the legends. If they had their own space it would be better.

Cita: "Oklahoman"​Ngdawa I really like your thinking. MINT letters and designer initials just junk up the legends. If they had their own space it would be better.

​Same goes for designer names and mintmarks/letters IMO!

And they DO have their own spaces; 'Engraver' above the 'Description' and 'Mintmark' for each coin entry.

No words...

Hm... Somehow I missed this thread originally. Could we please stop this kindergarten once and for all? One who uses words like demand, LAW, laziness of a referee, strange refuse, rebelling style, humiliating... Boy, I'm tired of even repeating all his verbal abuse here. Isn't this in violation of Numista rules of being courteous, polite, respectful?

On the topic though, what is the purpose of this lettering field? As I understand it, it is there so one can search by the text they see on a coin. Looking at a coin from N.Korea, does anyone think they will try to reproduce the minuscule text from the ribbon or the text that can be easily (well, that's actually an arguable statement) read? It's a no brainer, at least for those with the brain.

I support Oklahoman on this (and many other topics) 110%!

Hey, cyprusalexander, considering your point of view with regards to coats of arms, why don't you make change requests for all USSR coins? Here is USSR coat of arms for you. Copy-pasting not allowed.

Hahaha! I went and followed that link! So so much writing! It just makes my point.

Cita: "smoked_caramel"considering your point of view with regards to coats of arms, why don't you make change requests for all USSR coins? Here is USSR coat of arms for you.

​good point! and now i rest my case
i do, still, am open for to make a new box for the coat of arms lettering, since it's a part of the country's history (old names, mottos, etc). i'd love to do ussr - seriously!

I look forward to the guidelines.

Cita: "ngdawa"​

Cita: "smoked_caramel"considering your point of view with regards to coats of arms, why don't you make change requests for all USSR coins? Here is USSR coat of arms for you.

​​good point! and now i rest my case
​i do, still, am open for to make a new box for the coat of arms lettering, since it's a part of the country's history (old names, mottos, etc). i'd love to do ussr - seriously!

All jokes aside, there aren't actually any inscriptions depicted on the coat of arms on any of USSR's coins, short of Р.С.Ф.С.Р on the original RSFSR issue.

Cita: "Houseofham"​

Cita: "ngdawa"​
​

Cita: "smoked_caramel"considering your point of view with regards to coats of arms, why don't you make change requests for all USSR coins? Here is USSR coat of arms for you.

​​​good point! and now i rest my case
​​i do, still, am open for to make a new box for the coat of arms lettering, since it's a part of the country's history (old names, mottos, etc). i'd love to do ussr - seriously!

​All jokes aside, there aren't actually any inscriptions depicted on the coat of arms on any of USSR's coins, short of Р.С.Ф.С.Р on the original RSFSR issue.
​

True, but you shouldn't confuse USSR and RFSFR as the same. RFSFR was a part of USSR, not a different name for it. There were also BSSR and UkSSR, among others, in the USSR.

Cita: "ngdawa"​

Cita: "Houseofham"​
​

Cita: "ngdawa"​
​​
​

Cita: "smoked_caramel"considering your point of view with regards to coats of arms, why don't you make change requests for all USSR coins? Here is USSR coat of arms for you.

​​​​good point! and now i rest my case
​​​i do, still, am open for to make a new box for the coat of arms lettering, since it's a part of the country's history (old names, mottos, etc). i'd love to do ussr - seriously!

​​All jokes aside, there aren't actually any inscriptions depicted on the coat of arms on any of USSR's coins, short of Р.С.Ф.С.Р on the original RSFSR issue.
​​

​True, but you shouldn't confuse USSR and RFSFR as the same. RFSFR was a part of USSR, not a different name for it. There were also BSSR and UkSSR, among others, in the USSR.

​RSFSR was originally the predecessor of USSR and the first series of coins struck in 1921, prior to the formation of the USSR in Dec of 1922, bear RSFSR's coat of arms.