My pictures copied and used on Colnect

Hello Numista Administrators

I decided to have a look at Colnect because I suspected that my photos might have been used on there. So I registered as a new user. Upon browsing the Australian coin pages on there I was amazed to find that literally hundreds of my photos have been used on there. I did not give permission to anyone else to use them.

I have spent a massive amount of effort and time getting the Australian Decimal coin section on Numista up to scratch. Every single coin has a good picture and complete information. It was not like that when I first joined. If I was being paid for the time I have spent fixing things up on Numista I would be a very rich man now.  

Anyway I have raised a forum question on the Colnect website Forum and this is what I said to them .....

Hello - I am a new member on here and have just browsed the coin section. I am also a member on another coin collecting site which I won't mention but it begins with N.

On the other website I am a very active member and have made many contributions to it. Especially Australian coins. This is my activity on there. Catalogue contributions - 291 coins added, 530 years added, 1223 coins edited, 781 years edited, Forum posts 223

I have spent many, many hours taking photos of coins, editing them, cropping them etc that I have then uploaded for the betterment of that website.

Everyone of those coins I have added with photos has this underneath the photo ....© Mike Bentley
So much to my surprise I find that on this website hundreds of my photos have been [copied without permission] from the other website and used here.

These are just some examples of my photos [copied without permission] on colnect ......
https://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/922-Australia/series/339154-2018_-_Anzac_Spirit
https://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/922-Australia/series/298964-2017_-_Ford_Australian_Classics
https://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/922-Australia/series/332437-2018_-_Bathurst_Legend
https://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/922-Australia/series/300785-2017_-_Planetary_Coins
https://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/922-Australia/series/332436-2018_-_Motorsport_Legend
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/63829-1_Dollar_100th_Federation_of_Australia_Multicolor_logo-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/38264-5_Dollars_Paralympics-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/38264-5_Dollars_Paralympics-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/18759-50_Cents_Centenary_of_Federation_-_multicolour-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/63452-1_Dollar_5_Kangaroos_Hologram-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/63453-1_Dollar_5_Kangaroos_coloured_brown_30_Years_of_Mob_of_Roos-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/63454-1_Dollar_5_Kangaroos_Partially_Gold_Plated-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/18758-50_Cents_Millenium_Year_-_multicolour-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/63401-50_Cents_Australian_Coat_of_Arms_Colour-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/63402-50_Cents_Australian_Coat_of_Arms_Gold_Gilded-1970~Today_-_Numismatic_Products-Australia
https://colnect.com/en/coins/list/country/922-Australia/series/218296-Numismatic_Product_-_Alphabet_Coin_Collection

Can someone on here, preferably a senior admin member please explain how and why my photos have been used without my permission?
Also who is the colnect member that actually uploaded the ones I listed above on here, because I would like to have a chat with them?

Regards - Mike Bentley

I'm not sure what the response from them will be but I am very pissed off that they have done this.

Your thoughts?

Cheers Mike

Hello Mike,

as it happens, I will probably be the senior one that responds. First of all, try to search on numista forum about colnect (use the search on top of the page). Thing is, colnect is [using] pictures [from] wherever it finds them.

I raised the topic on [Colnect] myself, and Xavier and few other members did as well. Their response will be [...] claim that they have right to use all internet pictures based on one blog page (which is totally ridiculous, and blog page itself says it does not show the law) and of course, deleting your forum post there and banning your account.

Only way how to deal with that is take them to court. (Although some members succeeded in removing their photos by asking to modify a coin - apparently, there is some minor admin that cares). As far as I know, nobody had the will, money and time to actually take them to court. If you will be the one that does so, you shall have my support.

[Message edited by Xavier]

Thanks for the reply Jarcek - When I asked that question about a response from a senior administrator it was directed at them in the post I have put on their website, not you. The bolded part of the above post is what I said to them.

They have already responded and this is what they have said..... (Someone called tcawe was the responder)

Hi Mike,

Welcome to Colnect and we hope you'll enjoy becoming a part of our community

Colnect offers collectors from around the world extensive catalogs for free. The catalogs are created in a wiki-like fashion as described on http://colnect.com/help/collecting/more_collectibles
Many collectors contribute information to Colnect's catalogs and many more enjoy this information which helps collectors know more about what interests them.
Collectors contributing to Colnect agreed to our "Terms of Service" which include clear instructions protecting copyrights.
Colnect abides to the Israeli copyrights law which, similar to other copyrights laws, protects original creations. Factual information, such as the size of a banknote or weight of a coin, cannot be protected. Copying an existing creation which has copyrights, such as when scanning a banknote or taking a picture of a bottle cap or coin, does not grant copyrights to the person making the copy.

You're welcome to read the discussion on viewtopic.php?f=90&t=76383 as well and I hope it'll answer your questions.

We don't have a complete history of all items but judging from the Colnect IDs of the single coins you've included, you're referring to coins which have been added to Colnect many years ago so I doubt we can find the "who" exactly. Are you fine with these pictures serving collectors worldwide to identify their coins and use Colnect or is this something you dislike? The word "stolen" is definitely misplaced here.

This is my reply to them .......

I definitely do dislike the fact that pictures I have very clearly placed a copyright note on another coin collecting website have been taken from that website without my permission. The very first item on the list above was only placed on the other coin website within the last 2 months. Those coins have only been around since then. The last one of that batch of 2018 Anzac Spirit coins was only uploaded on 9th December 2018 to the other site.

I don't care about the information about the coins such as weight, metal size etc, but I do care about my pictures being used. Pictures which I spent many hours producing. […]

I request that they be removed from Colnect immediately. The ones I listed above are only a sample of the pictures that are showing on Colnect that were taken without my permission.

Mike

Oh, they went quite softly on you, so you directed a punch. Well done. I am just worried next thing will be ban for you on their forum... :(

I dont even go to their website. [...]

[Message edited by Xavier]

Cita: "Oklahoman"​I dont even go to their website. [...]

​I am on that site for my banknotes, but will abandon it as soon as Notista is up and running.

Cita: "JRo69"​

Cita: "Oklahoman"​I dont even go to their website. It is so offensive.

​​I am on that site for my banknotes, but will abandon it as soon as Notista is up and running.

​Uh, yeah, about that.....

Coming Soon™


Could I just point out the response Mike got from the Colnect admin there; they say:
"Are you fine with these pictures serving collectors worldwide to identify their coins and use Colnect or is this something you dislike?"

I don't know if what he quotes about Israeli copyright law is accurate, but in that quote there is some next-level attempt at guilting. As soon as Notista does get launched (around 2037 I reckon) I too will say adieu to Colnect.

I posted a further comment on Colnect as follows .....

I see you have posted this in the past .......

• We have a procedure for reporting suspected copyright infringement and we treat all such reports very
  
• seriously. Please contact us. Thanks Amir Wald - Founder of Colnect Collectors Community.
  

So please send me the procedure because I will be examining every Australian Coin on your website and looking for pictures that I made. Pictures I took of my own personal coins. Coins that belong to me. Pictures that I edited etc. It will be a big list.
Mike Bentley


Colnect Admin tcawe (Amir Wald? )replied to me in a PM as follows.....

Attached please find the document you've asked for.
Now a question: was your main reason for joining Colnect requesting removal of images or do you plan to be a part of our community?

The attachment he sent was a file called "InfringementReport.ODS" which is an Open Document Spreadsheet
I also replied to them which I will detail in a separate following post.

Mike

This is the actual reply I sent in a PM to his very pointed question which was .....

Now a question: was your main reason for joining Colnect requesting removal of images or do you plan to a be part of our community?

To answer your question. I joined your website out of curiosity. I had heard of Colnect from another coin collector so was interested to find out more about it.

Upon joining and browsing your website I was aghast to find hundreds of my pictures have been used on here without my permission. I am not an admin or even a referee on the other website which you don't like to name for some strange reason. I am just an ordinary member on there, but a very active one.

I uploaded this particular coin and photo there as follows .....
9 Dec 14:32 20 Cents - Elizabeth II (Anzac Spirit - Loyal) – Australia - Validated
This is a link to the uploaded page and photo.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces154714.html

Yet the very same photo appears on your website within a few days? Here is the link
https://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/131508-20_Cents_Anzac_Spirit_-_Loyal-2018_-_Anzac_Spirit-Australia

You even copied and pasted my wording and description about the obverse and reverse word for word!
[...]

So who uploaded it to your website? You will know who it is I am sure.

Mike Bentley

[Message edited by Xavier]

ps - I had to edit that PM I sent to them as they do not allow links to be posted so I removed the HTTPS etc part.

Also after the post is accepted they automatically change the word "Numista.com" to "Other Website"


Mike

You should go ask for some free juridical advice and see if what they do is a crime. There are many holes in copyright law Don't know about there, but here we have some places we can go to for free juridical advice :)

Cita: "brismike"​​You even copied and pasted my wording and description about the obverse and reverse word for word!
​This is plagiarism of the worst kind.

​First off, I'm on your side here, mate. But to be fair, and I think you said this earlier too, to copy a description of a coin (or banknote) is not plagiarism, since the coin's motive can easily be described by anyone. The same goes for descitpions of paintings and other items. The picture in itself though, is vandalising the copyright. What you could do is to add a watermark on your coin pics. This will prevent your pics from being copied to Colnect. Why? Because they do not allow pics with watermarks!

Hi ngdawa 

Yes you are right of course and I know there is nothing I can do about it. But to actually copy my actual wording that I came up with personally on the coins that I uploaded word for word, is very [disrepectful] act though.

Mike

I had the same standard email thrown to me when i requested to delete the photos they [copied] from Numista, after i was finished with the norwegian catalogue here. But their response to me was an immediate ban from Colnect...

So i guess you were lucky to come as far as to have a discussion with their admin team!

[Message edit by Xavier]

Even that they have STANDARD email for copyrighted photo delete requests is so wrong...

This is a copy of part of their terms and conditions for becoming a member and contributor to Colnect. I have bolded the important bits .....

6. Your User Contributions and Conduct
A. As a Colnect account holder you may submit relevant content. Adding items to the catalogs, editing the catalogs, adding item comments, translations, posting in the forums or sending private messages are collectively referred to as "User Contributions." You understand that Colnect does not guarantee any confidentiality with respect to any User Contributions.

B. You shall be solely responsible for your own User Contributions and the consequences of posting or publishing them. In connection with User Contributions, you affirm, represent, and/or warrant that: you own or have the necessary licenses, rights, consents, and permissions to use and authorize Colnect to use all patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights in and to any and all User Contributions to enable inclusion and use of the User Contributions in the manner contemplated by the Website and these Terms of Service.

C. For clarity, you waive all of your ownership rights in your User Contributions.

D. In connection with User Contributions, you further agree that you will not submit material that is copyrighted, protected by trade secret or otherwise subject to third party proprietary rights, including privacy and publicity rights, unless you are the owner of such rights or have permission from their rightful owner to post the material and to grant Colnect all of the license rights granted herein.

E. You further agree that you will not, in connection with User Contributions, submit material that is contrary to applicable local, national, and international laws and regulations.

F. Colnect does not endorse any User Contributions or any opinion, recommendation, or advice expressed therein, and Colnect expressly disclaims any and all liability in connection with User Contributions. Colnect does not permit copyright infringing activities and infringement of intellectual property rights on its Website, and Colnect will remove all Content and User Contributions if properly notified that such Content or User Contributions infringes on another's intellectual property rights. Colnect reserves the right to remove Content and User Contributions without prior notice.


Regards Mike

Simple but hard solution to the case maybe would be lockout just for pictures for non-singned-in users and each coin picture for singned-in users would automatically have their nick name as watermark on the picture. This way you can easily ban accounts of users, who do not understand and respect western civilizational norms and democratic values.

If they are not cooperative, you should consider threatening them with a Notice and Takedown Procedure against them at their hosting provider GoDaddy. Maybe then they will listen.

Godaddy is in the US right?
Sounds to me like a perfect opportunity for a nice DMCA takedown notice. However, coming from a private individual, I expect that anyone with any knowledge of the procedure will probably go the counter notice route.
EDIT: does seem to be in the US. A DMCA notice is probably pretty easy to serve.

Hi guys .. I am going thru the procedure they have asked me to follow to have the photo's taken down from their site. It involves filling in a spreadsheet with a lot of information. Because they have copied virtually hundreds of my pics that I uploaded to Numista it is going to take me some time.

But I will not let them off the hook. The DMCA takedown notice will be something I might have to resort to if they don't play ball.

I'll keep you informed. By the way someone on here is selectively copying and pasting text from this thread onto their site and putting it in a thread I initiated there.

Regards Mike

Cita: "mikimaus"​Simple but hard solution to the case maybe would be lockout just for pictures for non-singned-in users and each coin picture for singned-in users would automatically have their nick name as watermark on the picture. This way you can easily ban accounts of users, who do not understand and respect western civilizational norms and democratic values.

​I love that Idea. They say they won't use pictures that have a watermark on them.

Mike

I am thinking of inserting a Watermark on any of my personal pictures that I upload to Numista to try to protect them from being copied by people too lazy to make their own.

Something like this one .... This is just a test at the moment.



Would that be acceptable on Numista?

Regards Mike

I agree that this is a problem, but I really would not be a fan of watermarked pictures in general...
It makes things look commercial.
Not that the decision is in my hands obviously.
I really think that going down the old DMCA path is the best and most permanent answer. Do it once and you'll never have to do it again.

I would recommend using a watermark like the one used here by the private distributor (if you can figure out how!):


The way you've done it right now is a little bit intrusive onto the coin's image, but of course having the watermark in the white field is redundant, so this is the best of both worlds.

Thanks CassTaylor ... Yes you are right it is too intrusive ... I have experimented a little bit more and have come up with this .......



Or this ....



What do you think?

Mike

Cita: "brismike"​Thanks CassTaylor ... Yes you are right it is too intrusive ... I have experimented a little bit more and have come up with this .......
​
​
​
​Or this ....
​
​
​
​What do you think?
​
​Mike

​I prefer the above one!

Either works for me!

You could probably make the watermark bigger if it were more transparent (like my example) as well, since that would mean they can't simply crop most of your watermark out, and it wouldn't obstruct the photo as much either.

If I were a coin's photo thief, I would prefer that one with the @ outside the coin boundaries, to ease the crop job.

Cita: "trvrhldr"​If I were a coin's photo thief, I would prefer that one with the @ outside the coin boundaries, to ease the crop job.

True!

This is what I've done with my photos of my banknotes:
Obverse / Reverse


Full note

Cita: "brismike"​Or this ....
​
​
​
​What do you think?
​
​Mike

​I'd go for this one. Maybe push it a little more to the left so more touches the coin, and make it transparent so it won't take too muh focus.

A bit off-topic, but there is yet another site that apparently uses Numista's pictures. Example for Australia: https://en.ucoin.net/coin/australia-1-dollar-2017/?ucid=17550482
For comparison: https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces104148.html
See separate thread.

Thats another one of my pictures. What is it with these people that [appropriate] other peoples work?

Mike

[Message edited by Xavier]

I have perused the Australian Decimal coin selection on uCoin....
https://en.ucoin.net/catalog/?country=australia

And found at least 139 coins that have images that were produced by myself. One particular user on there who is based in Russia seems to be the main culprit.

I have contacted the admin on the website and the individual user to get them to explain how this has been allowed to happen and what the remedy will be.

I believe that more than the images that I created have been [copied] from Numista and used on there. I can easily identify mine very quickly but there are a lot of others that I didn't create that I recognise as coming from Numista.

I am still working on identifying my images that have been used on Colnect.com and that is becoming a massive effort on my part.

It really is disheartening to see this type of thing going on.

Regards Mike

[Message edited by Xavier]

Numista should block the availability of copying, and screen shoting, coin pictures, and pages with coins pictures. I people can't respect the copyright law, then this is the only way. For us users, we will simply have to ask for Xavier's permission to get access to our own photos, if needed. To het access to other's photos, thus user must then give permission for this, abd also personally contact Xavier and give his/hers OK.

uCoin have been actually very co-operative. I sent them a list of my images that had been taken from Numista and uploaded to their website. They apologised for the user who had done most of the copying and pasting and said they had little control over what he did.

They have commenced taking the pictures down and have done 30 so far, only another 100 odd to go.

I am still working on the file I will be sending to Colnect. That is a much bigger job.

Regards Mike

All

uCoin have now removed all my images from their website. They were very good to deal with. Over 130 coins with Obverse and Reverse images so over 260 photographs which were copied from Numista.

Still working on the Colnect ones.

Mike

Cita: "ngdawa"​Numista should block the availability of copying, and screen shoting, coin pictures, and pages with coins pictures. I people can't respect the copyright law, then this is the only way. For us users, we will simply have to ask for Xavier's permission to get access to our own photos, if needed. To het access to other's photos, thus user must then give permission for this, abd also personally contact Xavier and give his/hers OK.

Not sure if you're trolling or serious.

Latest Update re Colnect and my hundreds of images they have used […]

I prepared a test Infringement File as per the format that Colnect requires to remove images that do not belong to them. This is what they want from me. (Or anyone who wants infringing images removed)

Owners Name
Owners National ID <<<< Passport or similar
Owners Mailing Address
Owners Phone No
Owners email
Creation type
Creation Date
Creation Method
Page URL on Colnect
Reverse Image URL on Colnect
Obverse Image URL on Colnect
My original Reverse Image filename
My original Obverse Image Filename
Actual Copies of the original Files <<<<<<<<<< (More on this below)
Verification from a Lawyer that everything I have supplied is legitimate

So I sent them all of the above & about 20 initial Images to test it was ok with what they needed.

They came back with these responses in a series of emails ......

The test report seems fine. Only one thing: seems the images you
attach are the same as what we've received. Having a higher quality
(higher resolution) images than those found online would greatly help
as a proof that these are your originals.

If you could instead include the original images from the camera, it'd
be much better. Having higher quality, higher resolution images than
the ones we have would be a definite proof that these are indeed your
pictures. The files you've currently attached don't have the camera
info in the EXIF part and are of the same resolution and quality as
those on Colnect. Mind you we've checked only the first item reported.

It's clear that the images are the same but to establish that you're
the source rather than another source, having originals or higher
quality images would have been great. Please do that when you do have
the originals and do understand that in cases when you include the
exact same picture, you're basically asking us to take your word for
you being the actual source of the pictures without providing a clear
proof. You're welcome to suggest another proof, such as taking new
pictures of the same coins, showing their specific imperfections.

We have no trouble removing pictures by request if we're fairly
convinced that they've been used without their creator's approval even
though it doesn't constitute a copyrights violation. It just makes
sense that the creator of an image would have a way to prove it. If
you have no higher quality images proving you're the creator nor
another way to prove it, please start with the coins you can take new
pictures of, submit your first report and we'll have these images
removed as soon as possible. Please don't forget the declaration and
an attorney signature on it.

Since then I have not yet replied to them. They basically don't believe that I am the original source of these images unless I can provide the exact original image file that was taken by the camera. Seeing as I have discarded them after editing, cropping and uploading to Numista by formatting & overwriting the SD Card I can't provide them with that. So now they want me to take fresh photo's of the coins and send them those so they can compare etc ffs!

Well guess what? I am not going to do that because I have got a life. It would take me countless hours to do that. To remove the hundreds of coins from coin flips, to set up photo's again which would look different anyway because of the light conditions etc, then put the coins back in flips in my collection. […]

Regards - Mike

[Message edit by Xavier]

THEY [reused] all my pictures from here. , made special for |Numista.
Faight has no sense... just relax.. and never mind.. copyright rules never written for colnect and Ucoins.

[Message edited by Xavier]

Cita: "brismike"​Latest Update re Colnect and my hundreds of images they have used on their crappy website
​
​I prepared a test Infringement File as per the format that Colnect requires to remove images that do not belong to them. This is what they want from me. (Or anyone who wants infringing images removed)
​
​Owners Name
​Owners National ID <<<< Passport or similar
​Owners Mailing Address
​Owners Phone No
​Owners email
​Creation type
​Creation Date
​Creation Method
​Page URL on Colnect
​Reverse Image URL on Colnect
​Obverse Image URL on Colnect
​My original Reverse Image filename
​My original Obverse Image Filename
​Actual Copies of the original Files <<<<<<<<<< (More on this below)
​Verification from a Lawyer that everything I have supplied is legitimate
​
​So I sent them all of the above & about 20 initial Images to test it was ok with what they needed.
​
​They came back with these responses in a series of emails ......
​
​The test report seems fine. Only one thing: seems the images you
​attach are the same as what we've received. Having a higher quality
​(higher resolution) images than those found online would greatly help
​as a proof that these are your originals.
​
​If you could instead include the original images from the camera, it'd
​be much better. Having higher quality, higher resolution images than
​the ones we have would be a definite proof that these are indeed your
​pictures. The files you've currently attached don't have the camera
​info in the EXIF part and are of the same resolution and quality as
​those on Colnect. Mind you we've checked only the first item reported.
​
​It's clear that the images are the same but to establish that you're
​the source rather than another source, having originals or higher
​quality images would have been great. Please do that when you do have
​the originals and do understand that in cases when you include the
​exact same picture, you're basically asking us to take your word for
​you being the actual source of the pictures without providing a clear
​proof. You're welcome to suggest another proof, such as taking new
​pictures of the same coins, showing their specific imperfections.
​
​We have no trouble removing pictures by request if we're fairly
​convinced that they've been used without their creator's approval even
​though it doesn't constitute a copyrights violation. It just makes
​sense that the creator of an image would have a way to prove it. If
​you have no higher quality images proving you're the creator nor
​another way to prove it, please start with the coins you can take new
​pictures of, submit your first report and we'll have these images
​removed as soon as possible. Please don't forget the declaration and
​an attorney signature on it.
​
​Since then I have not yet replied to them. They basically don't believe that I am the original source of these images unless I can provide the exact original image file that was taken by the camera. Seeing as I have discarded them after editing, cropping and uploading to Numista by formatting & overwriting the SD Card I can't provide them with that. So now they want me to take fresh photo's of the coins and send them those so they can compare etc ffs!
​
​Well guess what? I am not going to do that because I have got a life. It would take me countless hours to do that. To remove the hundreds of coins from coin flips, to set up photo's again which would look different anyway because of the light conditions etc, then put the coins back in flips in my collection. Then they will just say that the images don't look the same so will reject the infringement report. No Fricking way.
​
​They can get stuffed and keep my photos. Instead I am going to work through my coin photos again and where they need improving for Numista I am going to do that. I will be watermarking and placing a logo on all the images. In fact I have already started to do it. Apologies to Max the Australian Referee because I think he must dread seeing stuff that I put up for validation.
​
​They basically just wear you down with the process they come out with. Colnect is the shittiest coin website anyway based on the Australian section I browsed. They have coins in the wrong category, they have wrong descriptions, poor photos (except for the ones I created and they pilfered), missing photos, even the wrong photo's against the wrong coins. It is a complete and utter disaster.
​
​I will tell all and sundry far and wide to avoid this hopeless Colnect website and its image thieving owners as much as I can.
​
​Regards - Mike
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I am amazed they didn’t want a signature of a person confirming that the person that signed is actually a lawyer. Also the lawyers email, address, phone number, date of birth, your work address, etc...