I would invest in a coin collection a maximum amount of 50-100EUR per month, so my question is what would you select for this collection in order to keep/increase its value within a couple of years?
The first thing that came to mind is that coins should have both metal AND numismatic value, so I m leaning towards silver/gold. However, the price for these metal fluctuates so I need to get high numismatic value also. I am a bit risk-averse so I am very tempted to hoard 50 Francs (with Hercules) or (Theresia thalers), but just figured this would not make for a real collection actually and is a move suited for investors, not collectors.
If you can recommend coins/books/top ten on this subject I would appreciate.
Hello,
In my opinion,a good option is to focus in a specific direction what a collection you'd enjoy to chase...be it US coins-UK&commonwealth-pre WWII-it's only up to you...buy only coins in high grade,and only at affordable price...maybe focus also on quality then quantity.
If you are patient enough,and you add one decent coin per week on average,in few years you will surely have a really nice colelction :)
I started collecting recently for similar goal. Collecting silver bullion is out of question because of high premium and VAT in Europe.30-40€ 1 ozt If even available as I'm writing.
Gold coins would be most desirable for me but I'm not rich.
What I found and started collecting was local (finnish) commemorative coins with 0.925 to 0.5 silver content. They are not subject to VAT here and can sometimes be found around silver spot price. Sometimes even lower.
Also 10€ and 20€ commemorative coins are 0.925 silver here. Maybe that's something you can find in your country too? But if they have high premium I wouldn't buy them.
Price fluctuation of silver can be problem if needed to liquidate in times you did not pick.
My thoughts, hope they help :D
Gold and silver have both risen greatly just in few weeks, so look for coin shops inventories (online or brick and mortar). Many are priced under melt value now. I purchased one gold coin couple of weeks ago for €80 under melt. Now as gold has risen more, price is €140 under current melt value. Time to buy precious metal coins is now.
Cita: "miketzu"I started collecting recently for similar goal. Collecting silver bullion is out of question because of high premium and VAT in Europe.30-40€ 1 ozt If even available as I'm writing.
Gold coins would be most desirable for me but I'm not rich.
What I found and started collecting was local (finnish) commemorative coins with 0.925 to 0.5 silver content. They are not subject to VAT here and can sometimes be found around silver spot price. Sometimes even lower.
Also 10€ and 20€ commemorative coins are 0.925 silver here. Maybe that's something you can find in your country too? But if they have high premium I wouldn't buy them.
Price fluctuation of silver can be problem if needed to liquidate in times you did not pick.
My thoughts, hope they help :D
Thanks. Thing is the local market is usually overvalued - just to put things in perspective, a local silver&antiques dealer would sell a 50Silver Francs W. Hercules at around 50$ (ok, it s UNC), while I found some at a random flea market guy w. 20$ - not mint but still super ok. Yeah, the bullion is horrible, you ll find a silver ounce selling at double the price of the spot, even more sometimes.
Cita: "miketzu"I started collecting recently for similar goal. Collecting silver bullion is out of question because of high premium and VAT in Europe.30-40€ 1 ozt If even available as I'm writing.
Gold coins would be most desirable for me but I'm not rich.
What I found and started collecting was local (finnish) commemorative coins with 0.925 to 0.5 silver content. They are not subject to VAT here and can sometimes be found around silver spot price. Sometimes even lower.
Also 10€ and 20€ commemorative coins are 0.925 silver here. Maybe that's something you can find in your country too? But if they have high premium I wouldn't buy them.
Price fluctuation of silver can be problem if needed to liquidate in times you did not pick.
My thoughts, hope they help :D
Isn t there a downside in the fact that commemorative coins hold little numismatic value?
Cita: "Trp"Gold and silver have both risen greatly just in few weeks, so look for coin shops inventories (online or brick and mortar). Many are priced under melt value now. I purchased one gold coin couple of weeks ago for €80 under melt. Now as gold has risen more, price is €140 under current melt value. Time to buy precious metal coins is now.
Ok... you re right assuming the price will keep on going up. Actually, silver did not yet reach the peak from back in 2011.. hopefully, it will get there soon.
Cita: "i_getsov"Hello,
In my opinion,a good option is to focus in a specific direction what a collection you'd enjoy to chase...be it US coins-UK&commonwealth-pre WWII-it's only up to you...buy only coins in high grade,and only at affordable price...maybe focus also on quality then quantity.
If you are patient enough,and you add one decent coin per week on average,in few years you will surely have a really nice colelction :)
thanks. in your opinion, what are the coins that can be sold at a minimum loss (very popular, holding both metal and numismatic value)?
So good, I wish you to become a millionaire in your country.
But it's not easy. For the inscription thread -it's a contradiction. How can you have a valuable collection without valuable coins?
quantity and price of metal?
In this case, time will play more value.
However, there is a problem between understanding the investor and the joy of the collector. It can be combined, only if you find the direction of your interest. But fast getting rich doesn't work.
You have to be consistent in your investment and collect gradually each month for that amount and create a comprehensive collection.
Example:
Francis Joseph II was on the throne for over 60 years , his silver coins are sought after quality and good , a comprehensive collection of the type at auctions achieves a good appreciation. https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces11558.html
So time is of the essence, buy every month for 20 years -then put the complete UNC collection up for auction .
That's the way-it's just my opinion and advice.
Ivan
I think if you want to invest in gold and silver it is better to do it via the spot market rather then coins.
If you buy modern commemorative coins with the price close to melt, in 99% their price will continue to be close to melt forever. If you buy silver/gold with some significant numismatic premium, their price will hardly change because of gold/silver price fluctuation (the only good thing that you will have a melt value as a maximum downside).
I think in case of investing to coins it is better to invest in high grade coins. I also think that you can invest in the coins of developing countries where more people will have excess money to spend on coin collection.
My personal list of scammers from Numista: erniemix, yvain, CassTaylor
Cita: "MIMAEL"Have a nice Sunday.
So good, I wish you to become a millionaire in your country.
But it's not easy. For the inscription thread -it's a contradiction. How can you have a valuable collection without valuable coins?
quantity and price of metal?
In this case, time will play more value.
However, there is a problem between understanding the investor and the joy of the collector. It can be combined, only if you find the direction of your interest. But fast getting rich doesn't work.
You have to be consistent in your investment and collect gradually each month for that amount and create a comprehensive collection.
Example:
Francis Joseph II was on the throne for over 60 years , his silver coins are sought after quality and good , a comprehensive collection of the type at auctions achieves a good appreciation.
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces11558.html
So time is of the essence, buy every month for 20 years -then put the complete UNC collection up for auction .
That's the way-it's just my opinion and advice.
Ivan
Thanks, I appreciate it. Still in doubt about the probability of selling without a loss (unless buying high-value coins super cheap or digg them out yourself)
I don't collect to accumulate some monetary value I collect for the sake of collecting.
I am currently trying to get all types of circulating coins in the world in the last century because is also a wonderful way to know the recent history and the geography of the world.
Moreover, it is amusing to look for the coins, for example by swapping
I am also been tempted by collecting bronze coins since this metal is beautiful, and they age wonderfully.
Looking for monetary gain IMHO is not collecting, and for what I know never results ingain but frequently in a loss.
When I was young I collected stamps, and I add the idea that the money spent on them could be t least recovered in the future. Now they are almost worthless
Cita: "resn1k"I would invest in a coin collection a maximum amount of 50-100EUR per month, so my question is what would you select for this collection in order to keep/increase its value within a couple of years?
The first thing that came to mind is that coins should have both metal AND numismatic value, so I m leaning towards silver/gold. However, the price for these metal fluctuates so I need to get high numismatic value also. I am a bit risk-averse so I am very tempted to hoard 50 Francs (with Hercules) or (Theresia thalers), but just figured this would not make for a real collection actually and is a move suited for investors, not collectors.
If you can recommend coins/books/top ten on this subject I would appreciate.
When it comes to gold/silver bullion, you seem a "little late for the party." Remember this time now because both (gold/silver) were relatively inexpensive a year ago (all considered). And it is likely they will fall to a more affordable price once again: precious metals, oil & most commodities move in + & - cycles (at least that's what historical evidence shows us). Almost every investor worth his/her salt buys during times of uncertainty (during a negative cycle when the market price drops) which is likely ahead of us since our economies have contracted. Most people don't buy during uncertainty b/c they a) don't have the funds or b) don't have the stomach for it (but the greats - like Warren Buffet do). Look how billionaires use other people's money to become rich. Get creative & be ready to take some calculated (conservative) risks on what should net you a decent profit down the road. Then turn that profit into another investment vehicle.
If you really want to "invest" in collectible coins then you will have to recognize that a) it is not the best investment (not very liquid) and b) you will have to research what is highly sought after by the majority of collectors. I wrote that its not very liquid b/c it only attracts other collectors (not a large market like Forex, stock/precious metals markets which attract many). So there's always costs in buying & large costs in selling.
Check out Heritage, Stacks Bowers & other auction sites to see what's really coveted (& will always be considered so rare that it will only go up). Keep perusing websites for info on what collectors seek (if you must start small). That's what most serious collectors do (who wish to turn their start-up collection into something more than just a bunch of coins). Collecting coins is a long process (& can be a difficult learning curve) so you must have patience.
Heres an example of finnish silver commemorative coin lot mentioned by Miketzu & Trp. Even half a year ago you could get these 10mk Kekkonen's easily for 4-5€, where the melt value now is almost 9€ according to numista. What is usually happening is, that these are melted in large quantities, because they seem to have very low numismatic value and large production quantity. So selling these can be challenging even with higher silver price. Also some coins have this pvc-mold from that blue holder. 500mk 1952 etc. are more collectible.
I dont know how to monetise these with silver melt value, all comments are appreciated. The price has only slightly increasead in online auctions so far. So this seems not to be any ticket to large wealth either😁 I tend to keep collecting as a hobby, not as an investment.
Kallenuo - you're right. In the seventies when some of those were minted by a mintage of one million, the whole population of Finland was about three million. So no shortage anytime soon. These don't carry any premium as Kallenuo pointed out. That's why I keep only one example per type and don't accumulate huge pile of similar coins for "investing" purposes. Though I do have some coins I don't like much which I plan to sell when silver price level is higher. Before that point they are part of the collection and displayed as such.
Price could just be lagging because of collectors and sellers following price guides instead of metal values.
I admit I don't know at what price commemoratives could be sold again. But if they contain silver I doubt they will go worthless ever.
Cita: "Kallenuo"
Heres an example of finnish silver commemorative coin lot mentioned by Miketzu & Trp. Even half a year ago you could get these 10mk Kekkonen's easily for 4-5€, where the melt value now is almost 9€ according to numista. What is usually happening is, that these are melted in large quantities, because they seem to have very low numismatic value and large production quantity. So selling these can be challenging even with higher silver price. Also some coins have this pvc-mold from that blue holder. 500mk 1952 etc. are more collectible.
I dont know how to monetise these with silver melt value, all comments are appreciated. The price has only slightly increasead in online auctions so far. So this seems not to be any ticket to large wealth either😁 I tend to keep collecting as a hobby, not as an investment.
By now, it is clear to me this cannot be the main driver for an investor - it seems to me that investing in high-value coins is a passion for someone already wealthy in most cases. (unless you re hustling, buying low selling very high etc) The subjectivity and difficulties that arise when looking to sell will definitely select only the hardcore aficionados. As for me, I decided I will go for around 30% of my investing budget in metals&coins -- prob 25% hoarding popular coins at bullion value and 5% collectable coins.
Cita: "Kallenuo"
Heres an example of finnish silver commemorative coin lot mentioned by Miketzu & Trp. Even half a year ago you could get these 10mk Kekkonen's easily for 4-5€, where the melt value now is almost 9€ according to numista. What is usually happening is, that these are melted in large quantities, because they seem to have very low numismatic value and large production quantity. So selling these can be challenging even with higher silver price. Also some coins have this pvc-mold from that blue holder. 500mk 1952 etc. are more collectible.
I dont know how to monetise these with silver melt value, all comments are appreciated. The price has only slightly increasead in online auctions so far. So this seems not to be any ticket to large wealth either😁 I tend to keep collecting as a hobby, not as an investment.
By now, it is clear to me this cannot be the main driver for an investor - it seems to me that investing in high-value coins is a passion for someone already wealthy in most cases. (unless you re hustling, buying low selling very high etc) The subjectivity and difficulties that arise when looking to sell will definitely select only the hardcore aficionados. As for me, I decided I will go for around 30% of my investing budget in metals&coins -- prob 25% hoarding popular coins at bullion value and 5% collectable coins.
You'd be wise to be hesitate in terms of what you should classify as an "investment." Be careful not to get caught up in other peoples speculation. Sellers often dress up common coins, paper money & even tokens as "great investments" in a similar loose way as they ascribe "rare" to just about anything they sell. [More trustworthy/established sellers don't do this or at least qualify as "grade rarity."]
I still find that most collectors want to acquire a super valuable collection at Face Value. I'm even suspicious of some social media posts that they walked into a bank & got silver halves & dollars for FV *(if they admitted that they worked at the bank I'd be more convinced).
Younger people can't recognise silver from other metals as older people or numismatists do. For them they are just coins or they just don't want to hassle with them.
For example I'm not interested in DVD's or books so I have just donated them away. Not interested to research their value and sell individually.
Cita: "Trp"Kallenuo - you're right. In the seventies when some of those were minted by a mintage of one million, the whole population of Finland was about three million. So no shortage anytime soon. These don't carry any premium as Kallenuo pointed out. That's why I keep only one example per type and don't accumulate huge pile of similar coins for "investing" purposes. Though I do have some coins I don't like much which I plan to sell when silver price level is higher. Before that point they are part of the collection and displayed as such.
I have also collected most of the Finnish silver commemoratives, especially € coins have great designs. One classic collection type not yet mentioned here is American silver dollars. Those bullion silver eagles are nice when silver price is increasing. I like also Morgan, Piece and Ike Dollars, some don't. Good thing is that these have high silver content, are known by collectors and there are also some rarities for larger budget.
From your thread title, it is obvious you're not an already extremely rich person where investing in coins, stamps, art works etc can actually yield substantial value over time. Even in terms of investing, gold and silver are considered as hedges, that is, their value generally goes up when stock/bond markets go down and vice versa. More often than not, bull markets last several times longer than bear markets
If you do want to diversify and perform basic hedge investing, you're better off investing your monthly 100euros into gold-linked ETFs rather than actual gold which does not collect any interest, and to top it off, you have to spend money on securing it whether at home or in a bank safety deposit box. Spot/forward/futures markets are another possibility or even Derivatives put/call options. However, you have to be an extremely sophisticated legally qualified investor for that which you are probably not.
In a nutshell, collect coins for the joy of it. Over time, some of it may accidentally become valuable, most of it will not. For investment purposes, stick with more traditional avenues like Real Estate, stock/bond markets and interest yielding deposits. Your decision should also depend on your stage in life with any upcoming large expenses which would determine how liquid you need your investments to be. If you have locked up at the end of 5 years 6000euros in coins and you realise you have a large upcoming payment to be made, you'd likely end up making a distress sale of your coins at best marginally above the value you acquired them for, if you are able to send them at all in time
